FS: VAF Signature I-66 speakers [Archive]

View Full Version : FS: VAF Signature I-66 speakers

Pages : [1] 2

Mal P

09-02-2005, 07:23 PM

[In Canberra]

Howdy,

I'm selling my treasured VAF Signature I-66 speakers:
http://www.vaf.com.au/catalog/products/i66.htm . They are fully assembled,
in absolute mint condition, the colour is Jarrah, and come with user manual
and spikes etc. They are still under warranty. The reason I'm selling is
that I'm moving house, and my new living room is too small to fit them in
:-(

I am in Canberra, and I would prefer it if you could pick them up (perhaps
driving in from interstate), but if you want me to ship them, then the cost
of bringing a courier to my door, having them box the speakers, transport
them and insurance them etc would need to be borne by the purchaser.

The price is $3700.

Contact me on pandorastein@hotmail.com

Sincerely,
Mal

Patrick Turner

09-02-2005, 11:13 PM

Mal P wrote:

> [In Canberra]
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm selling my treasured VAF Signature I-66 speakers:
> http://www.vaf.com.au/catalog/products/i66.htm . They are fully assembled,
> in absolute mint condition, the colour is Jarrah, and come with user manual
> and spikes etc. They are still under warranty. The reason I'm selling is
> that I'm moving house, and my new living room is too small to fit them in
> :-(
>
> I am in Canberra, and I would prefer it if you could pick them up (perhaps
> driving in from interstate), but if you want me to ship them, then the cost
> of bringing a courier to my door, having them box the speakers, transport
> them and insurance them etc would need to be borne by the purchaser.
>
> The price is $3700.
>
> Contact me on pandorastein@hotmail.com
>
> Sincerely,
> Mal

Sorry to see you are leaving us.

Cope transport isn't too bad with sending things.

I just sent a Quad ESL57 to melbourne to John Hall,
and they did a great job.
I didn't have to pack it; they bubble wrapped the speaker and
heat-shrinkwrapped the
speaker onto a pallet, and they make sure other items don't get placed on
top....
The cost from the ACT to Melbourne was $90 including gst.
But they said the minimum excess on an insurance policy was $1,000.
So I didn't bother insuring a stuffed Quad speaker. They seemed to take so much
care
that insurance isn't necessary, but if the speakers have to go to Perth or
Darwin, Cairns,
I'd insure them.

A gentleman here who heard your I-66 was so impressed he bought a new pair for
himself last september.

Patrick Turner.

Ben Thomas

10-02-2005, 07:23 AM

Mal P

10-02-2005, 09:23 AM

Thanks for the information Patrick, much appreciated... so it looks
like shipping is possible, without too much expense!

Yes, he dropped by last year, pity he didn't wait six months, could've
picked up a bargain <cough> ;-)

Sincerely,
Mal

Mal P

10-02-2005, 09:23 AM

Alas, it is so, you know the deal, first house and all, have to
compromise somewhere. So I'll pick up some decent bookshelf speakers
for a while and when I move into my dream house with the dedicated
hi-fi room (!) I'll return to floorstanders.

Sincerely,
Mal

Mal P

10-02-2005, 09:23 AM

Ben Thomas

10-02-2005, 09:33 AM

Mal P wrote:
> Alas, it is so, you know the deal, first house and all, have to
> compromise somewhere. So I'll pick up some decent bookshelf speakers
> for a while and when I move into my dream house with the dedicated
> hi-fi room (!) I'll return to floorstanders.
>
> Sincerely,
> Mal
>

Congrats on the new house. My first house was 30 squares and plenty of room for
floor standers, although I'm 45 klms from Melbourne so I saved a bit on the land.

--
--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

My Digital World:
Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

Disclaimer:
Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

Mal P

10-02-2005, 11:23 AM

Howdy,

Thanks! Wow, 30 squares! 45km from the CBD or from outer Melbourne?

Sincerely,
Mal

Public Image Ltd

10-02-2005, 02:13 PM

Patrick Turner wrote:

> A gentleman here who heard your I-66 was so impressed he bought a new
pair for
> himself last september.

So did he also have a listen to your Supremes? The reason I ask is that
I have seen almost no discussion of them here, and so being curious I
thought I'd give you the opportunity to blow your own trumpet. :-)

The other reason I ask is that I am starting to get tempted to build
something similar myself, and there is a lot of intuitive appeal in the
idea of having the bass in one cabinet and an MTM design in another. It
seems to me that approach has a lot going for it in comparison to
trying to integrate a sub or two with some bookshelves. You could even
start with a commercial MTM bookshelf, and adapt it. Reluctant as I am
to give him any press, one possibility there is Trev Lees's TLA 120s -
another speaker which doesn't seem to have received a lot of discussion
around here.

Ben Thomas

10-02-2005, 03:44 PM

Mal P wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> Thanks! Wow, 30 squares! 45km from the CBD or from outer Melbourne?
>
> Sincerely,
> Mal
>

45kms from the CBD by freeway so it's less than an hour drive in peak hour and
only 30 minutes at 5:30 am... And that 30 squares includes 4 for garage.

--
--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

My Digital World:
Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

Disclaimer:
Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

Adam F

10-02-2005, 06:53 PM

I have a friend who has his I-66s in a small 2br apartment in a high rise :)

//Adam F

"Mal P" <pandorastein@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107987533.337001.219630@l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> Alas, it is so, you know the deal, first house and all, have to
> compromise somewhere. So I'll pick up some decent bookshelf speakers
> for a while and when I move into my dream house with the dedicated
> hi-fi room (!) I'll return to floorstanders.
>
> Sincerely,
> Mal
>

jloh

10-02-2005, 08:21 PM

I am interested...will check with my banker tonight

[In Canberra]

Howdy,

I'm selling my treasured VAF Signature I-66 speakers:
http://www.vaf.com.au/catalog/products/i66.htm . They are fully assembled,
in absolute mint condition, the colour is Jarrah, and come with user manual
and spikes etc. They are still under warranty. The reason I'm selling is
that I'm moving house, and my new living room is too small to fit them in
:-(

I am in Canberra, and I would prefer it if you could pick them up (perhaps
driving in from interstate), but if you want me to ship them, then the cost
of bringing a courier to my door, having them box the speakers, transport
them and insurance them etc would need to be borne by the purchaser.

The price is $3700.

Contact me on pandorastein@hotmail.com

Sincerely,
Mal

Patrick Turner

11-02-2005, 04:33 AM

Public Image Ltd wrote:

> Patrick Turner wrote:
>
> > A gentleman here who heard your I-66 was so impressed he bought a new
> pair for
> > himself last september.
>
> So did he also have a listen to your Supremes? The reason I ask is that
> I have seen almost no discussion of them here, and so being curious I
> thought I'd give you the opportunity to blow your own trumpet. :-)

Well yes he did have a listen.

And I don't have the time to be a speaker specialist.
I doubt any discussions I promoted here about my speakers
would result in any sales.

He thought I wasn't really keen on selling them, which was an unfortunate
misunderstanding, and at the time I had just sold him a pair of
35 watt SE amps, and left him the option of upgrading from
DCX to my Supremes.
I went away for a weekend, and didn't follow it up because I am
the worst salesman in the world, and I thought he was going to take some
time to
decide on what he wanted, since he'd told me he had several brands in mind.

After he decided on the I-66, he had to wait about 2 mths for them to
appear
at his door.

I can't say my speakers are better than VAF, but they would have been
just as effective for the guy.
But he also wasn't so keen on the ash-blonde finish of my units.
You can't win all the people all the time.

>
> The other reason I ask is that I am starting to get tempted to build
> something similar myself, and there is a lot of intuitive appeal in the
> idea of having the bass in one cabinet and an MTM design in another. It
> seems to me that approach has a lot going for it in comparison to
> trying to integrate a sub or two with some bookshelves.

I have had Sonus Faber and Vienna Acoustic bookshelf speakers here for
repair.
With both, I tried using such units in place of my own MT units and had a
listen,
and the bass was of course a lot better than what the bookshelfs could
provide on their own.
And all this even though there was a big overlap in the mid-bass crossover
region, and I didn't
match accurately for levels.
But the SF and VA speakers have SEAS units like mine, and I got the same
basic blameless sound...

> You could even
> start with a commercial MTM bookshelf, and adapt it. Reluctant as I am
> to give him any press, one possibility there is Trev Lees's TLA 120s -
> another speaker which doesn't seem to have received a lot of discussion
> around here.

I once demoed all my speakers at an ASON meeting, and got a great
reception.
A guy from Pymble hi-fi offered to buy the speakers, but only if I wanted
to sell
the top MT units. I thought the guy was a prime dickhead.
It's a bit like wanting to buy just the cab and front wheels of a car.
He thought he could sell my speakers, but only if they were "packaged
small"
to get past wives, nearly all of whom could never accept the bass speaker
units of mine because of
size.
He only wanted to pay me peanuts.
All the shops are like this; they like to pay low and sell high.

I got the message ok about speakers sold in shops.
Bookshelf speakers from northern europe and mounted on stands
instead of of being mounted on a decent bass speaker sell for about $5,000
especially if they have the review in a glossy hi-fi magazine.
I refuse entirely to reproduce such muck that fails to produce full range
sound,
and I insist on selling something that really "does it".
The local hi-fi stores here in the ACT want 50% of the retail price,
and that makes it quite impossible to make any money after spending so long

making decent enclosures and using fabulous drive units and hand made
Xovers.
I gave up trying to make speakers to compete with the crap in the shops.

It was very easy to get the rave reviews from all who listened to my
speakers while
I had them in shops here for a few months of "evaluation trials" as
the salesman I got to know called it.
But the owner said I couldn't have an indefinate time for "evaluation".
Then I knew the longer I left them in the store, the more shop soiled
they'd become,
and after 2 mths I removed them and said "you know where I am
and where a good pair of speakers are".
I can't absorb the financial loss of writing off damaged shop stock.
Shops here would never buy my speakers, then sell them.
They sit on the shop floor as my property until sold.

I know they are ok speakers, and the greedy stores who won't spend a cent
on promotions and who bow low to selling common denominator gear
can all do without me.

You won't find VAF speakers in the local stores either.

But their I-66 are over $5,000. They'd have to be priced at $10,000
in a shop that wanted 50%.

Most folks feel $1,000 is a lot of money for speakers, but that's about
what
I paid for the drivers in a set I'd make.
I recall spending about $600 on timber.
I took weeks to make the speakers. I found it quite non
profitable to include the shop's 50%.
I might be able to do some speakers in painted MDF for
a lot cheaper than the fully venered boxes with solid timber baffles.
Not my scene.

I wasn't meant to succeed with speakers. I have not got the time to
specialize in them because new amplifiers and repairs take so much
of my time.
Jolida and other el-cheapo tube amps dominate the tube amp market,
so there is no money to be made dealing through the stores with amplifiers
I may make.
Curiously, there are not many other Oz made tube amps in any local stores.

I deal with the 0.01% of the public that avoid the shops like the plague.
Some even avoid VAF, because even their prices are not cheap,
even without the shop's 50%.
I have more work ahead of me than I can poke a stick at
and I don't have to get depressed when dealing with the shops.

I'd like to be able to employ someone to help me but they'd have to be a
perfectionist
prepared to work for $5 per like many artisans like myself.
And after I train them to be good with triodes, who else on earth
would employ them outside the low pay cottage industry?
There is almost no *secure* career prospects in audio outside sales and
repairs.
Oz manufactures have to compete with cheap imports, propped up by slave
labour
in asia; then they have to put up with the shops, and the fact that
most folk can't/won't afford real quality, and have high resistance to
buying anything that isn't a brandname, and then promotion of a product
also
is a huge expense.......
So to succeed, one needs financial backing, or start when you are 20
and work one's way up.....

I do the occasional sub-woofer, and driver placements in boxes ppl
have built to designs I have sent them.
Two clients of mine each with Vienna Acoustic Motzart floorstanders
both independantly came to me for a sub woofer,
rather than spending say $4,500 on a Whise or suchlike.
I do a much cheaper sub with an 86L box and Peerless 12" XLS.
Most ppl have a suitable SS power amp laying around so all I need to
to provide is a handmade solid state active filter unit for between the
preamp and sub.
I don't like the "plate" amps fitted to some subs I have seen and tested.

Patrick Turner.

gringo

11-02-2005, 10:03 AM

Did you assemble these yourself?

I'd be interested, but at sub 3k mark.

Good luck,

JC

"jloh" <jloh.1k8dsh@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
news:jloh.1k8dsh@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
>
> I am interested...will check with my banker tonight
>
>
> Mal P Wrote:
>> [In Canberra]
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm selling my treasured VAF Signature I-66 speakers:
>> http://www.vaf.com.au/catalog/products/i66.htm . They are fully
>> assembled,
>> in absolute mint condition, the colour is Jarrah, and come with user
>> manual
>> and spikes etc. They are still under warranty. The reason I'm selling
>> is
>> that I'm moving house, and my new living room is too small to fit them
>> in
>> :-(
>>
>> I am in Canberra, and I would prefer it if you could pick them up
>> (perhaps
>> driving in from interstate), but if you want me to ship them, then the
>> cost
>> of bringing a courier to my door, having them box the speakers,
>> transport
>> them and insurance them etc would need to be borne by the purchaser.
>>
>> The price is $3700.
>>
>> Contact me on pandorastein@hotmail.com
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Mal
>
>
> --
> jloh

Public Image Ltd

11-02-2005, 01:23 PM

Patrick Turner wrote:

> I have had Sonus Faber and Vienna Acoustic bookshelf speakers here
for
> repair.
> With both, I tried using such units in place of my own MT units and
had a
> listen,
> and the bass was of course a lot better than what the bookshelfs
could
> provide on their own.
> And all this even though there was a big overlap in the mid-bass
crossover
> region, and I didn't
> match accurately for levels.
> But the SF and VA speakers have SEAS units like mine, and I got the
same
> basic blameless sound...

So you mean you didn't even high-pass the bookshelves? That is the part
where I could anticipate a couple of problems arising. I would imagine
that if you are crossing-over at 200-300 Hz then you would have to be
real careful about mucking up the phase.

Fraser Johnston

11-02-2005, 04:53 PM

"Adam F" <asfletchNOSPAM@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:ujEOd.154842$K7.51990@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>I have a friend who has his I-66s in a small 2br apartment in a high rise
>:)
>

Bet the neighbours love him.

Fraser

Ayn Marx

11-02-2005, 05:03 PM

Patrick Turner wrote:

>
> I just sent a Quad ESL57 to melbourne to John Hall,
> and they did a great job.

Hope it was a better job than Hall sometimes does!

Mal P

11-02-2005, 07:33 PM

Howdy,

I did assemble them myself, but I also assembled the DC-Xs before that as
well, so I'm quite a pro at it :-)

If you'd like to negotiate, drop me a line via email and we'll see what we
can do!

Sincerely,
Mal

"gringo" <holycrapuscuk@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:aFROd.155459$K7.6522@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Did you assemble these yourself?
>
> I'd be interested, but at sub 3k mark.
>
> Good luck,
>
> JC
>
>
> "jloh" <jloh.1k8dsh@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:jloh.1k8dsh@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
> >
> > I am interested...will check with my banker tonight
> >
> >
> > Mal P Wrote:
> >> [In Canberra]
> >>
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> I'm selling my treasured VAF Signature I-66 speakers:
> >> http://www.vaf.com.au/catalog/products/i66.htm . They are fully
> >> assembled,
> >> in absolute mint condition, the colour is Jarrah, and come with user
> >> manual
> >> and spikes etc. They are still under warranty. The reason I'm selling
> >> is
> >> that I'm moving house, and my new living room is too small to fit them
> >> in
> >> :-(
> >>
> >> I am in Canberra, and I would prefer it if you could pick them up
> >> (perhaps
> >> driving in from interstate), but if you want me to ship them, then the
> >> cost
> >> of bringing a courier to my door, having them box the speakers,
> >> transport
> >> them and insurance them etc would need to be borne by the purchaser.
> >>
> >> The price is $3700.
> >>
> >> Contact me on pandorastein@hotmail.com
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Mal
> >
> >
> > --
> > jloh
>
>

Patrick Turner

11-02-2005, 09:33 PM

Public Image Ltd wrote:

> Patrick Turner wrote:
>
> > I have had Sonus Faber and Vienna Acoustic bookshelf speakers here
> for
> > repair.
> > With both, I tried using such units in place of my own MT units and
> had a
> > listen,
> > and the bass was of course a lot better than what the bookshelfs
> could
> > provide on their own.
> > And all this even though there was a big overlap in the mid-bass
> crossover
> > region, and I didn't
> > match accurately for levels.
> > But the SF and VA speakers have SEAS units like mine, and I got the
> same
> > basic blameless sound...
>
> So you mean you didn't even high-pass the bookshelves?

No.
It was a casual test.

Its not a big deal.
The bass from 125mm dia speakers rolls off fairly severely.
But the bass from a 200 mm driver will only boost the 100 Hz by 3 dB
if indeed each speaker is equally sensitive to the same voltage applied at
100 Hz.
But the bookshelf will not produce what the dedicated bass does at 100 Hz,
and definitely not
at below 100 Hz.
So you don't actually get a +3dB peak in the response say below 200 Hz down
to 80 Hz.

> That is the part
> where I could anticipate a couple of problems arising. I would imagine
> that if you are crossing-over at 200-300 Hz then you would have to be
> real careful about mucking up the phase.

But if the mid & bass speakers overlap a lot rather than share the same
Xover 3 dB point,
it doesn't really sound like there is a problem.
Phase response is actually better. I *do* cross my speakers over at around
200 Hz, and
I do use slightly more overlap than theory would suggest i should.
In practice the acoustic response tests indicate there is no problem,
unless I do
use the same pole for both speakers, and then there tends to be a trough
around the Xover,
and opposite phasing of the bass doesn't do much to the measurements, and
makes little change sonically.

Far more critical is the Xover between the mid and treble units.

Phase isn't as important as ppl think.

One can have speakers set up with the mids in opposite phase to bass and
treble,
and this is often done to make the transition fron bass the mids and mids
to treble smooth
and free of troughs and peaks at the Xover F caused by the 90 degree phase
shift in a second order
filters.

Our ears are hopeless phase discriminators, and do not depend on absolute
phase
at all for us to hear properly, and judge distances or direction.
At a concert, the phase relationships between frequencies from a trumpet 15
metres away
are differently related than when we are 1 metre away due to reflections
and vaguaries of acuostic behaviour.
Try sending a square wave to a speaker, and watching the waveform from a
microphone
at various distances. At each distance the wave looks very different.

The best phase coherence is supposed to occur with with electrostatic
speakers because of their
transient response. The ones I have heard sure image well.
Imaging is theoretically best with phase coherence, but not a lot of
speakers make their
phase the same for all drivers, and its common to find the mid is phase
reversed.
I am not sure what that does to imaging. Coonected either way, many dynamic
speakers
fail to image very precisely.
But then at a concert, the image is vague. With good imaging speakers,
there
is only a small sweetspot where imaging is good. Quad ESL57 are famous for
their
imaging, but two ppl sitting side by side cannot share that image, and one
person
will send a percieved performer zooming back and forth across the stage
just by
rocking side to side in his chair.
At a concert, the performer tends to stay put, although a seat near a wall
creates strange effects.
Dynamics tend to give the same impression of performer wherabouts as at the

concert.

The phase relationships between different F are all over the place at some
distance
from a performer because the wavelengths are all different.
The phase of the frequencies caught by the microphone are those that
are played from your speaker.
So what you hear from a recording is what you would have heard had you been
where the mics were.
But then we have the colourations of your room which interact with the
reproduced ambience
of the venue, so we never really hear what could have been heard at a
concert; we hear a suitably
close version if the engineers have placed their mics sensibly....
This isn't always the case, and performances may be pieced together from a
multitrack,
and the resemblance of the venue is lost.
But regardless of what the relative phase between frequencies in music,
its important that not to much delay occurs with any; ie, the path
from performer to mic is unimpeded, and we record little reverberation.
Its not always thus; a gregorian chant in a church depends on the delay of
the echo.
the echo is enjoyed, and helps singers stay on the note. Churches are often
horrible places
from an acoustic point of view, so the main instrument used is the organ,
and where you have
lots of drums and transients, the echos convert this to noise.
slow to start and slow to stop organ notes are OK in a church, but never a
rock band.
I would hazard a guess and say that treating one's room to
absorb as much refelected sound as possible will improove the
image and music more than any concerns about speaker phasing, although L &
R
channels should have very close phase relationships at any F.

Bass response for any room will be very different in another room.
Measurements indicate wild peaks and troughs at different positions
in the same room.

So a suck it and listen approach to bass might be all you can do
unless you have a multi band graphic eq with auto level PC control.
It smacks of being a bandaid control though., and running one's audio
through
say 140 opamps and filters is questinable.
I know guys who say is works in rooms that their wives will not tolerate
carpets and thick wall hangings, and absorbent ceiling linings.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner

11-02-2005, 09:53 PM

Ayn Marx wrote:

> Patrick Turner wrote:
>
> >
> > I just sent a Quad ESL57 to melbourne to John Hall,
> > and they did a great job.
>
> Hope it was a better job than Hall sometimes does!

You missed the context.
Cope transport did a good job of sending the Quad ESL to Mr Hall.

The job is yet to be done.

The owner is hesitating, after getting the bad news about the state of
the
speaker. Maybe he finds just one ESL57 somebody wants to sell.....

I have reason to believe Mr Hall seems to know what he's doing.

Maybe I will find out for sure.

He is 1/2 the price of the chap in Sydney.

I will say this though.
I did have a desire to aquire a pair of Quad ESL57, but after
seeing what can go wrong with them, and how much
it costs to fix them, I doubt I'd ever want to pay
more than $400 for a pair that appear to be OK.
I don't have the spare cash to buy a pair at say $1,000, then be forced
to have someone
else tinker with them for another grand a few years later when the high
voltage
charges start to fail.
To fully rebuild a pair would cost about $2,400 including freight.
I heard someone whinging that he paid $10,000 in tax last year.
He could easily afford to muck around with ancient Quads.
I said to this fellow, "gee, if only I earned that much..."
This guy watches every bleeding cent and is tight as a fish's A.

Patrick Turner.