Re: $399 HiDef STB @ Strathfield

[Adam F]

Can someone please explain to me why people worry about the price of an HD
STB when the cheapest 1080 capable displays cost thousands?


//Adam F

<MrSwiss@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:mkoo01tm6ndv2m3r6bm8men070qvtl792t@4ax.com...
> http://www.strathfield.com/ViewProduct.asp?ProdID=1140#
>
> Brand is Acoustic Research.
>
> For only $399 am tempted to get one but have never heard of the brand.
>
> Anybody checked them out properly or bought one?

[Mike]

Adam F wrote:
> Can someone please explain to me why people worry about the price of an HD
> STB when the cheapest 1080 capable displays cost thousands?

Because they saw how great the Channel-7 HD demo looked on that $1500
"HD ready" TV in the shop ??

BTW, you can get a personal (ie not lounge room) 720p-capable
LCD display for less than $399, with RGB and DVI inputs. (5:4 17")

[Trevor S]

Mike <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in
news:420eaa83@quokka.wn.com.au:

<snip>

> BTW, you can get a personal (ie not lounge room) 720p-capable
> LCD display for less than $399, with RGB and DVI inputs. (5:4 17")

Which still has to downconvert to show 1080...


--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Mike]

Trevor S wrote:

>>BTW, you can get a personal (ie not lounge room) 720p-capable
>>LCD display for less than $399, with RGB and DVI inputs. (5:4 17")
>
>
> Which still has to downconvert to show 1080...

.... just like every other "HD" TV out there, be it CRT, LCD or Plasma.
Name one that does 1080i native without loss! Only a few high-end
computer monitors can truly do it at the moment.

[Trevor S]

Mike <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in
news:421009fd@quokka.wn.com.au:

<dnip>

> ... just like every other "HD" TV out there,

No, it can't be a HDTV if it can't handle full resolution HDTV... no matter
what label the manufacturer puts on it.

> be it CRT, LCD or Plasma.
> Name one that does 1080i native without loss! Only a few high-end
> computer monitors can truly do it at the moment.

most CRT projectors can cope, the new Sharp LCD tellie can do it.. and most
PC monitors will do it. I am running 1600 x 1200 on my 21" Phillips 210P
:)

I have trouble undertstaning why peole replace a current TV with one that
can't cope with the Aussie broadcast standards... sure.. buy a set that can
handle 576 (SD) (which couunts out all SD plasmam panels that I am aware
of) but don't buy a set that can only do HDTV 1/2 ass'd...

All IMO of course :)

I am waiting to get around to eyballing the new Sharp LCD (I have had a
smaller 2nd gen AQUOS in the bedroom for awhile now) as it has nearly
double the contrast of mine (my only real gripe with LCD TV's)

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Adam F]

"Trevor S" <bill@gates.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95FD9EFF2B9D4billgatescom@130.133.1.4...
> Mike <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in
> news:421009fd@quokka.wn.com.au:
>
> <dnip>
>
>> ... just like every other "HD" TV out there,
>
> No, it can't be a HDTV if it can't handle full resolution HDTV... no
> matter
> what label the manufacturer puts on it.
>

Hmm thanks for confirming my suspicions...now if only widescreen LCDs would
come down a bit more...:)

//Adam F

[Mike]

Trevor S wrote:

>>... just like every other "HD" TV out there,

> No, it can't be a HDTV if it can't handle full resolution HDTV... no matter
> what label the manufacturer puts on it.

What?
They may handle a 1080i input signal, but they cannot display it fully.
HD LCDs typically have 1280x720 pixels. Plasmas less. I've seen plasmas
labelled as "HD" which couldn't even display SD fully (480 line)
but yes, they would accept a 1080i signal.

LCD and plasma do internal down-conversion, and CRTs either do the same
or just loose data because the phosphor stripes and electron beam are
much wider than the theoretical pixels.

>>be it CRT, LCD or Plasma.
>>Name one that does 1080i native without loss! Only a few high-end
>>computer monitors can truly do it at the moment.
>
> most CRT projectors can cope,

Try showing a 1920x1080 computer screen on them and
see how fuzzy it is. Can you name a model whose spec's I can find on
the web?

> the new Sharp LCD tellie can do it..

Model name pleas? I'm curious.

> and most PC monitors will do it.

Nonsense. The stripe pitch limits real horizontal res.

> I am running 1600 x 1200 on my 21" Phillips 210P

Thats nice, and good enough for me, but not quite spec'd for full HDTV.
The Apple 23" LCD monitor does do 1920 pixels across.

>
> I have trouble undertstaning why peole replace a current TV with one that
> can't cope with the Aussie broadcast standards... sure.. buy a set that can
> handle 576 (SD) (which couunts out all SD plasmam panels that I am aware
> of) but don't buy a set that can only do HDTV 1/2 ass'd...

Thats good enough when the Australian HDTV broadcasts are half-arsed :-)
(BTW, that's "arse" here in australia, not "ass". ie bum, not donkey)

> All IMO of course :)

[Michael]

"Mike" <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4211473c@quokka.wn.com.au...
> Trevor S wrote:
>> most CRT projectors can cope,
>
> Try showing a 1920x1080 computer screen on them and
> see how fuzzy it is. Can you name a model whose spec's I can find on the
> web?

http://www.projectorspecifications.com/search.php I count about 9

>> the new Sharp LCD tellie can do it..
>
> Model name pleas? I'm curious.

See Scalpel's post in a.a-v.h-c.

>> and most PC monitors will do it.
>
> Nonsense. The stripe pitch limits real horizontal res.
>
>> I am running 1600 x 1200 on my 21" Phillips 210P
>
> Thats nice, and good enough for me, but not quite spec'd for full HDTV.
> The Apple 23" LCD monitor does do 1920 pixels across.

Well, it is good enough for our 1440x1080, as you say, half arsed
broadcasts. Some states do get full 1080i though, so Trev will have to find
a real HD monitor if he moves. :)

[Trevor S]

Mike <mike.n@nospam-westnet.com.au> wrote in
news:4211473c@quokka.wn.com.au:

> What?
> They may handle a 1080i input signal, but they cannot display it
> fully.

Of course, which is the point... The inability to display the signal at
it's full resolution is reason to NOT label it HD

> HD LCDs typically have 1280x720 pixels.

That's not HD.

> Plasmas less.

Indeed

> I've seen
> plasmas labelled as "HD" which couldn't even display SD fully (480
> line) but yes, they would accept a 1080i signal.

I have seen people call Rod Speed smart, doesn't make it so... Slapping a
label on something means nada.

> Try showing a 1920x1080 computer screen on them and
> see how fuzzy it is. Can you name a model whose spec's I can find on
> the web?

You serious ? any of the good 3 gun CRT's can easily cope, why do you think
the genuine videophiles stick with CRT projectors, they offer by far the
most superior picture...at the moement.. you might like to do some research
yourself..

> Model name pleas?

http://www.sharp.net.au/catalogue/productinfo.asp?model=LC45G1XSYS

>I'm curious.

I doubt that your genuinly curious or you coudl have gone to the Sharp web
site and found out for yourself.... you do seem ignortant though, might be
time you did some research.

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Adam F]

"Adam F" <asfletchSPAMOFF@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:DUYPd.160477$K7.50121@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Hmm thanks for confirming my suspicions...now if only widescreen LCDs
> would come down a bit more...:)


Oooh $1495 for 27" at Big W.
Nice screen too, I checked it out today.


//Adam F

[Ozdude]

"Trevor S" <bill@gates.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95FE96EABD61Ebillgatescom@130.133.1.4...
> You serious ? any of the good 3 gun CRT's can easily cope, why do you
> think
> the genuine videophiles stick with CRT projectors, they offer by far the
> most superior picture...at the moement.. you might like to do some
> research
> yourself..

Don't know about that. My old boss has a JVC DiLA projector with a DGTEC 1st
gen box attached to it and I've never seen a CRT 3 gun come even close to
the resolution and clarity of his system.

Oz

[Michael]

Clarity is subjective, but if you compare the resolution of the current
consumer digital projectors you'll find they can't match the CRT's that can
easily fully resolve HD. Then there's contrast, etc. where digital doesn't
even come close.

"Ozdude" <ivsmith11@hote-mail.com> wrote in message
news:4211e205$0$4608$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> "Trevor S" <bill@gates.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95FE96EABD61Ebillgatescom@130.133.1.4...
>> You serious ? any of the good 3 gun CRT's can easily cope, why do you
>> think
>> the genuine videophiles stick with CRT projectors, they offer by far the
>> most superior picture...at the moement.. you might like to do some
>> research
>> yourself..
>
> Don't know about that. My old boss has a JVC DiLA projector with a DGTEC
> 1st gen box attached to it and I've never seen a CRT 3 gun come even close
> to the resolution and clarity of his system.

[Mike]

This started when someone said: HD-stb prices arn't important when
HD-TVs cost so much.
I point out that computer displays are cheap, and claim that a small
LCD on the coffee table looks(1) just as good as a big screen on the
other side of the room.
Few HD-TVs will do any better than the 1280-pixel-wide cheap PC
displays. Most so-called HD-TVs show less detail.

Trevor S wrote:
> Of course, which is the point... The inability to display the signal at
> it's full resolution is reason to NOT label it HD

A valid point. We could call 720p "medium def.", but thats not how the
world is.

> Slapping a label on something means nada.

Slap it consistently, and you define the meaning of the label.
But "576p HD" annoys me too.

>
>>Try showing a 1920x1080 computer screen on them and
>>see how fuzzy it is. Can you name a model whose spec's I can find on
>>the web?
>
> You serious ? any of the good 3 gun CRT's can easily cope, why do you think
> the genuine videophiles stick with CRT projectors, they offer by far the

I think these are known as "boardroom projectors". Hardly consumer
televisions.

> http://www.sharp.net.au/catalogue/productinfo.asp?model=LC45G1XSYS

Thanks. Very nice spec's, except it costs as much as a small car,
and weighs more than a fridge! Suitable for a digital town cinema?
I'll admit, I was surprised (and amused) to see it has a built-in
PAL tuner. So I'll admit it is a "TV".
We look forward to these coming down in size and price. Its been
slow so far though.

Mike.

(1) image quality. Not "looks bigger than your friends'" (yes, still
talking TVs).