Typhoon: why not a retro-fit GT clutch?

[Jason James]

I know these simplistic solutions are probably not viable for today's
'performance car controls',...but heavy as it was, the dual-plate XY GT
clutch handled larger output and torque,...then again the Typhoon is
supposed to be acceptable for the missus as well.

Jason

[kevcat]

who wants a missus who only has one muscular thigh

the clutch would be way to heavy for todays standards
Kev

Jason James wrote:
>
> I know these simplistic solutions are probably not viable for today's
> 'performance car controls',...but heavy as it was, the dual-plate XY GT
> clutch handled larger output and torque,...then again the Typhoon is
> supposed to be acceptable for the missus as well.
>
> Jason

[Toby Ponsenby]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:26:20 GMT, kevcat wrote:

> who wants a missus who only has one muscular thigh
>
> the clutch would be way to heavy for todays standards
> Kev
>
> Jason James wrote:
>>
>> I know these simplistic solutions are probably not viable for today's
>> 'performance car controls',...but heavy as it was, the dual-plate XY GT
>> clutch handled larger output and torque,...then again the Typhoon is
>> supposed to be acceptable for the missus as well.
>>
>> Jason

Piss easy solution is a baby vacuum booster as seen on Girly
Blandcruisers.
Good enough for Toyota, good enough for For.... whoa, what am I
saying..
--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[kevcat]

>
> Piss easy solution is a baby vacuum booster as seen on Girly
> Blandcruisers.


you having a go at my girly legs??

Kev

[athol]

kevcat <kevcat@dodo.com.au> wrote:
> who wants a missus who only has one muscular thigh

> the clutch would be way to heavy for todays standards

That's why some better built modern vehicles (Landcruiser springs
to mind) have a small vacuum booster on the clutch master cylinder,
much like the booster on a brake master cylinder. Even a remote
booster such as a PBR VH44 would do the job (overkill, actually).

Boosting the clutch would make the XWs, etc. a lot more driveable,
too. :-)

Of course, adding a remote booster to an existing vehicle is only
simple if it's already hydraulic...

Mind you, the master-vac style (between pedal and master cylinder)
fundamentally boost the mechanical pushrod between the pedal and
master cylinder, so it should theoretically be possible to make a
miniature booster that fits on the firewall (possibly under the
dash) in a mechanical linkage setup. Done right, the engine bay
could look totally stock aside from the vacuum hose to feed the
booster.

Making one for a pull-cable system is only slightly more
complicated - I stopped typing for a minute and designed most of
the valve body in my head. :-) Hmm. Could be a marketable
design, that. Replace the clutch cable with one that integrates a
mini-booster while maintaining a failsafe design. Worst case is
depleted vacuum making the pedal as heavy as original...

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[athol]

Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote:

> Piss easy solution is a baby vacuum booster as seen on Girly
> Blandcruisers.

Yep. That's for a hydraulic clutch. See my other post for
solutions for mechanical linkage and pull cable... :-)

Anybody know what the actuation on the Typhoon is?

> Good enough for Toyota, good enough for For.... whoa, what am I
> saying..

LOL. I think that you're confusing yourself. :-p

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[OzOne]

Why not an electric clutch
http://tinyurl.com/6vbul

There was a car way back which had an electric clutch operated by a
button on the gearlever.....can't remember what it was, but we've gone
a long way since then.


On 20 Feb 2005 01:48:53 GMT, athol <me@privacy.net> scribbled thusly:

>kevcat <kevcat@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>> who wants a missus who only has one muscular thigh
>
>> the clutch would be way to heavy for todays standards
>
>That's why some better built modern vehicles (Landcruiser springs
>to mind) have a small vacuum booster on the clutch master cylinder,
>much like the booster on a brake master cylinder. Even a remote
>booster such as a PBR VH44 would do the job (overkill, actually).
>
>Boosting the clutch would make the XWs, etc. a lot more driveable,
>too. :-)
>
>Of course, adding a remote booster to an existing vehicle is only
>simple if it's already hydraulic...
>
>Mind you, the master-vac style (between pedal and master cylinder)
>fundamentally boost the mechanical pushrod between the pedal and
>master cylinder, so it should theoretically be possible to make a
>miniature booster that fits on the firewall (possibly under the
>dash) in a mechanical linkage setup. Done right, the engine bay
>could look totally stock aside from the vacuum hose to feed the
>booster.
>
>Making one for a pull-cable system is only slightly more
>complicated - I stopped typing for a minute and designed most of
>the valve body in my head. :-) Hmm. Could be a marketable
>design, that. Replace the clutch cable with one that integrates a
>mini-booster while maintaining a failsafe design. Worst case is
>depleted vacuum making the pedal as heavy as original...



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[Toby Ponsenby]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:00:04 +1100, OzOne wrote:

> Why not an electric clutch
> http://tinyurl.com/6vbul
>
> There was a car way back which had an electric clutch operated by a
> button on the gearlever.....can't remember what it was, but we've gone
> a long way since then.
>
>
Standard 10 had a button on the lever top, which (IIRC) operated with
vacuum (apologies to Cockmonster). The car also had a conventional
clutch pedal and normal operation of the clutch was used for
start-stop stuff.
Just the gear changing needn't have involved the pedal, is all.
Nice system.

I still wonder what the hell is wrong with CM gearboxes for
'performance cars'. Even an air pressure shifter could be used if the
manufacturers figured drivers wouldn't get the hang of dog-clutches
properly. Then clutches could be designed to set the car off the mark
'only' and not have to be set up for the other tasks we know they're
used for, which just might allow the manufacturers to provide
something that worked *and* was cheap to build?

[OzOne]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:30:16 +1000, Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net>
scribbled thusly:
>On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:00:04 +1100, OzOne wrote:
>
>> Why not an electric clutch
>> http://tinyurl.com/6vbul
>>
>> There was a car way back which had an electric clutch operated by a
>> button on the gearlever.....can't remember what it was, but we've gone
>> a long way since then.
>>
>>
>Standard 10 had a button on the lever top, which (IIRC) operated with
>vacuum (apologies to Cockmonster). The car also had a conventional
>clutch pedal and normal operation of the clutch was used for
>start-stop stuff.
>Just the gear changing needn't have involved the pedal, is all.
>Nice system.

Yep, that was one I remember...though I'm sure there was another with
an electric setup.
>
>I still wonder what the hell is wrong with CM gearboxes for
>'performance cars'. Even an air pressure shifter could be used if the
>manufacturers figured drivers wouldn't get the hang of dog-clutches
>properly. Then clutches could be designed to set the car off the mark
>'only' and not have to be set up for the other tasks we know they're
>used for, which just might allow the manufacturers to provide
>something that worked *and* was cheap to build?

Yep, there seems to be a reluctance to develop clutches in cars.
They've remained essentially the same for donkeys years.
I think it'll take one of the big EU makers to break the mould
beforethe sheep follow.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[atec]

Toby Ponsenby wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:00:04 +1100, OzOne wrote:
>
>
>>Why not an electric clutch
>>http://tinyurl.com/6vbul
>>
>>There was a car way back which had an electric clutch operated by a
>>button on the gearlever.....can't remember what it was, but we've gone
>>a long way since then.
>>
>>
>
> Standard 10 had a button on the lever top, which (IIRC) operated with
> vacuum (apologies to Cockmonster). The car also had a conventional
> clutch pedal and normal operation of the clutch was used for
> start-stop stuff.
> Just the gear changing needn't have involved the pedal, is all.
> Nice system.
>
> I still wonder what the hell is wrong with CM gearboxes for
> 'performance cars'. Even an air pressure shifter could be used if the
> manufacturers figured drivers wouldn't get the hang of dog-clutches
> properly. Then clutches could be designed to set the car off the mark
> 'only' and not have to be set up for the other tasks we know they're
> used for, which just might allow the manufacturers to provide
> something that worked *and* was cheap to build?
near this lcal is a major intersection , we suffer 24 hours a day with
spinning tyres , mostly manual ... now explain to me again why young
wankers want , manuals ?
Also if you have a manual why lighten the clutch ?
are you girly mens blouses or something
I had no trouble driving a gt twin plate.. if you want a manual then
accept that someone has to have a big thigh.. ( stops the Mrs taking it)

[OzOne]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:54:26 +1000, atec <"atec77(atec)"@hotmail.com>
scribbled thusly:

> Also if you have a manual why lighten the clutch ?
> are you girly mens blouses or something
>I had no trouble driving a gt twin plate.. if you want a manual then
>accept that someone has to have a big thigh.. ( stops the Mrs taking it)

Grrrr, why is it that so many assume that a performance clutch needs
to be heavy?
Paddle/button clutches have a much smaller friction area so with the
same pressure plate rating you get a much higher 'pressure' on the
smaller area and as a result better clutch grip.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[Noddy]

"athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:37q8otF5h7reqU2@individual.net...

> Anybody know what the actuation on the Typhoon is?

No idea, but perhaps that's part of the problem.

They'd be well aware of the old habit of firewall cracking on their previous
model manuals, and they'd be lothe to introduce any heavy pull on the cable
if it's not hydraulic.

Could open a real can of worms....

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[OzOne]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:39:16 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@_nospam_dod.com.au>
scribbled thusly:

>
>"athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:37q8otF5h7reqU2@individual.net...
>
>> Anybody know what the actuation on the Typhoon is?
>
>No idea, but perhaps that's part of the problem.
>
>They'd be well aware of the old habit of firewall cracking on their previous
>model manuals, and they'd be lothe to introduce any heavy pull on the cable
>if it's not hydraulic.
>
>Could open a real can of worms....

I think Athol is alluding to the push type instead of the better pull
type clutch for performance applications.



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[athol]

Noddy <dg4163@_nospam_dod.com.au> wrote:
> "athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>> Anybody know what the actuation on the Typhoon is?

> No idea, but perhaps that's part of the problem.

> They'd be well aware of the old habit of firewall cracking on their previous
> model manuals, and they'd be lothe to introduce any heavy pull on the cable
> if it's not hydraulic.

Actually, I reckon that I could build a vacuum booster based on
the design of a mastervac type, that would boost a pull cable
clutch and could be mounted anywhere along the cable provided
that it was protected from excessive heat. Very simple design.

> Could open a real can of worms....

Or the firewall. :-)

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Graham W]

OzOne wrote:
> Grrrr, why is it that so many assume that a performance clutch needs
> to be heavy?
> Paddle/button clutches have a much smaller friction area so with the
> same pressure plate rating you get a much higher 'pressure' on the
> smaller area and as a result better clutch grip.

If the same force applied as a higher pressure over a smaller area
resulted in more grip we'd all be driving around on narrow crossply tyres.

[OzOne]

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:45:37 +1100, Graham W
<zebedee@alphalink.commercial.au> scribbled thusly:

>OzOne wrote:
>> Grrrr, why is it that so many assume that a performance clutch needs
>> to be heavy?
>> Paddle/button clutches have a much smaller friction area so with the
>> same pressure plate rating you get a much higher 'pressure' on the
>> smaller area and as a result better clutch grip.
>
>If the same force applied as a higher pressure over a smaller area
>resulted in more grip we'd all be driving around on narrow crossply tyres.

You'd need to talk to Dennis about that.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[Charlie]

atec wrote:

> Also if you have a manual why lighten the clutch ?
> are you girly mens blouses or something
> I had no trouble driving a gt twin plate.. if you want a manual then
> accept that someone has to have a big thigh.. ( stops the Mrs taking it)

why have power steering or air con? fuck it, why bother with a seat?

Charlie