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Thread: Not registered for GST but charging GST

  1. #1
    Ext User(David W) Guest

    Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Hi all,

    I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax Invoice",
    however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not registered for GST.
    Looks like an easy scam to pick up an extra 10% income.

    Organisations that have claimed back this GST credit now face the prospect
    of having to repay it if they are audited by the ATO. They would then need
    to contact this individual to reclaim the GST as they were not entitled to
    charge it.

    However what can happen to the individual? Should they be made to pay the
    GST to the ATO. Can they be prosecuted for this type of thing?

    Cheers,



  2. #2
    Ext User(Phil Allison) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST


    "David W"
    >
    > I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    > separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax Invoice",
    > however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not registered for GST.



    ** Wot - so the ABN is a fake ???

    There isn't one ?

    There is and it says they are not GST registered ?

    Have you asked them about it ?






    ........ Phil







  3. #3
    Ext User(David W) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST


    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
    news:4h179cF1pcrhqU1@individual.net...
    >
    > "David W"
    >>
    >> I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    >> separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax Invoice",
    >> however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not registered for GST.

    >
    >
    > ** Wot - so the ABN is a fake ???
    >
    > There isn't one ?


    Yes there is and personal details on it are correct, but says "No current or
    historical GST registrations"


    > Have you asked them about it ?



    no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?

    Cheers.



  4. #4
    Ext User(Phil Allison) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST


    "David W"
    >>
    >>> I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    >>> separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax
    >>> Invoice", however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not
    >>> registered for GST.

    >>
    >>
    >> ** Wot - so the ABN is a fake ???
    >>
    >> There isn't one ?

    >
    > Yes there is and personal details on it are correct, but says "No current
    > or historical GST registrations"
    >
    >
    >> Have you asked them about it ?

    >
    >
    > no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?



    ** You need to ask THEM about it.

    The ABN data base could be wrong.

    There may be another business /company name with the required GST
    registration.

    Their response to you query will tell you a lot.




    ......... Phil




  5. #5
    Ext User(Peskey) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST


    > "David W"
    >
    > no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?


    My understanding is that a non GST registered company is still required to
    charge GST on services and goods, but cannot claim GST expenses.

    The GST must be collected on any GST chargable item.



  6. #6
    Ext User(Andy) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:15:28 +1000, "Peskey" <tom_noSPAM@peskey.info>
    wrote:

    >
    >> "David W"
    >>
    >> no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?

    >
    >My understanding is that a non GST registered company is still required to
    >charge GST on services and goods, but cannot claim GST expenses.


    You understanding is incorrect. If a company is not registered to
    collect the GST, they can not charge it on any goods and/or services
    they provide.

    >The GST must be collected on any GST chargable item.


    No. If you are not registered to collect the GST then you can neither
    collect, nor claim back any GST you've paid on purchases.

    Cheers...

  7. #7
    Ext User(Andy) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:16:52 GMT, "David W"
    <nothankyou@yesthankyou.com> wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >
    >I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    >separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax Invoice",
    >however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not registered for GST.
    >Looks like an easy scam to pick up an extra 10% income.


    Not necessarily. The company may be acting as trustee for a trust
    which is registered to collect the GST or the ABN register may not
    have been updated correctly.

    As Phil has already rightly said, you aught to ask them about it if
    you have concerns.

    Cheers...

    >
    >Organisations that have claimed back this GST credit now face the prospect
    >of having to repay it if they are audited by the ATO. They would then need
    >to contact this individual to reclaim the GST as they were not entitled to
    >charge it.
    >
    >However what can happen to the individual? Should they be made to pay the
    >GST to the ATO. Can they be prosecuted for this type of thing?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >



  8. #8
    Ext User(Rod Speed) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Peskey <tom_noSPAM@peskey.info> wrote:
    >> "David W"
    >>
    >> no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?


    > My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    > is still required to charge GST on services and goods,


    You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.

    > but cannot claim GST expenses.


    > The GST must be collected on any GST chargable item.


    See above.



  9. #9
    Ext User(Andy) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:47:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
    <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

    >Peskey <tom_noSPAM@peskey.info> wrote:
    >>> "David W"
    >>>
    >>> no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?

    >
    >> My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    >> is still required to charge GST on services and goods,

    >
    >You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.


    That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    >
    >> but cannot claim GST expenses.

    >
    >> The GST must be collected on any GST chargable item.

    >
    >See above.


    Crawl back into your hole Roddly Poos and stick to stuff you know
    something about.. like self gratification. Now play me one of your
    macros like a good little bot.


  10. #10
    Ext User(sarahs choice) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Andy wrote:
    > On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:15:28 +1000, "Peskey" <tom_noSPAM@peskey.info>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>> "David W"
    >>>
    >>> no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?

    >> My understanding is that a non GST registered company is still required to
    >> charge GST on services and goods, but cannot claim GST expenses.

    >
    > You understanding is incorrect. If a company is not registered to
    > collect the GST, they can not charge it on any goods and/or services
    > they provide.
    >
    >> The GST must be collected on any GST chargable item.

    >
    > No. If you are not registered to collect the GST then you can neither
    > collect, nor claim back any GST you've paid on purchases.
    >
    > Cheers...


    tick,tick,tick....

  11. #11
    Ext User(sarahs choice) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Andy wrote:
    > On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:16:52 GMT, "David W"
    > <nothankyou@yesthankyou.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    >> separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax Invoice",
    >> however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not registered for GST.
    >> Looks like an easy scam to pick up an extra 10% income.

    >
    > Not necessarily. The company may be acting as trustee for a trust
    > which is registered to collect the GST or the ABN register may not
    > have been updated correctly.
    >
    > As Phil has already rightly said, you aught to ask them about it if
    > you have concerns.
    >
    > Cheers...
    >
    >> Organisations that have claimed back this GST credit now face the prospect
    >> of having to repay it if they are audited by the ATO. They would then need
    >> to contact this individual to reclaim the GST as they were not entitled to
    >> charge it.
    >>
    >> However what can happen to the individual? Should they be made to pay the
    >> GST to the ATO. Can they be prosecuted for this type of thing?
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>

    >


    tick,tick,tick.....

  12. #12
    Ext User(sarahs choice) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Andy wrote:
    > On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:47:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
    > <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Peskey <tom_noSPAM@peskey.info> wrote:
    >>>> "David W"
    >>>>
    >>>> no, my concern is, are they breaking the law?
    >>> My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    >>> is still required to charge GST on services and goods,

    >> You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.

    >
    > That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    > collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    >>> but cannot claim GST expenses.
    >>> The GST must be collected on any GST chargable item.

    >> See above.

    >
    > Crawl back into your hole Roddly Poos and stick to stuff you know
    > something about.. like self gratification. Now play me one of your
    > macros like a good little bot.
    >


    tick,tick,tick........

  13. #13
    Ext User('Arf) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Hey Andy, what's with this ticking, everywhere you go?


    Andy wrote:
    > On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:16:52 GMT, "David W"
    > <nothankyou@yesthankyou.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Hi all,
    > >
    > >I have just come across a situation where an indivual is including a
    > >separate GST component in their Tax Invoice, yes it stated "Tax Invoice",
    > >however a search with abr.gov.au reveals they are not registered for GST.
    > >Looks like an easy scam to pick up an extra 10% income.

    >
    > Not necessarily. The company may be acting as trustee for a trust
    > which is registered to collect the GST or the ABN register may not
    > have been updated correctly.
    >
    > As Phil has already rightly said, you aught to ask them about it if
    > you have concerns.
    >
    > Cheers...
    >
    > >
    > >Organisations that have claimed back this GST credit now face the prospect
    > >of having to repay it if they are audited by the ATO. They would then need
    > >to contact this individual to reclaim the GST as they were not entitled to
    > >charge it.
    > >
    > >However what can happen to the individual? Should they be made to pay the
    > >GST to the ATO. Can they be prosecuted for this type of thing?
    > >
    > >Cheers,
    > >



  14. #14
    Ext User(Andy) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    On 5 Jul 2006 09:45:20 -0700, "'Arf" <arthur_brain1@yahoo.co.uk>
    wrote:

    >Hey Andy, what's with this ticking, everywhere you go?


    Dunno.. It's never interested me enough to ask. Just seems to be some
    sort of bum fly / loser that likes to follow me around and file
    everything I write as though I'm some sort of prophet or something..

    <shrug>

    Makes no never mind to me.. I just have my news reader filter the crap
    out for me. :)

    Cheers...

    [ ~ ]

  15. #15
    Ext User(sarahs choice) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Andy wrote:
    > On 5 Jul 2006 09:45:20 -0700, "'Arf" <arthur_brain1@yahoo.co.uk>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Hey Andy, what's with this ticking, everywhere you go?

    >
    > Dunno.. It's never interested me enough to ask. Just seems to be some
    > sort of bum fly / loser that likes to follow me around and file
    > everything I write as though I'm some sort of prophet or something..
    >
    > <shrug>
    >
    > Makes no never mind to me.. I just have my news reader filter the crap
    > out for me. :)
    >
    > Cheers...
    >
    > [ ~ ]


    tick,tick,tick......

  16. #16
    Ext User(quietguy) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    I think you are mistaken there Andy. For example, as a hobby farmer who
    earns less than $50,000 pa from farm activity I am not required or
    allowed to charge GST on the cattle I sell - whereas my neighbors who
    are 'real' farmers are obliged to charge GST on their livetock sales.
    When I sell throught through the local livestock marketing center (as I
    always do) I am required to complete a 'no GST applicable' form.

    David

    Andy wrote:

    > .....
    > >> My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    > >> is still required to charge GST on services and goods,

    > >
    > >You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.

    >
    > That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    > collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    >



  17. #17
    Ext User(Sylvia Else) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    quietguy wrote:

    > I think you are mistaken there Andy. For example, as a hobby farmer who
    > earns less than $50,000 pa from farm activity I am not required or
    > allowed to charge GST on the cattle I sell - whereas my neighbors who
    > are 'real' farmers are obliged to charge GST on their livetock sales.
    > When I sell throught through the local livestock marketing center (as I
    > always do) I am required to complete a 'no GST applicable' form.
    >
    > David
    >
    > Andy wrote:
    >
    >
    >>.....
    >>
    >>>>My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    >>>>is still required to charge GST on services and goods,
    >>>
    >>>You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.

    >>
    >>That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    >>collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    >>

    >
    >


    The situation is that you cannot charge GST unless you're registered for
    it. It makes no difference what your turnover is.

    However, if your turnoever is above the threshold, then you're obliged
    to be registered.

    So it's possible to be above the threshold, but, unlawfully, not be
    registered. In that case, not withstanding the obligation to be
    registered, it is unlawful to charge GST. Even though it cannot be
    charged, the tax man can demand that it be remitted.

    People who find themselves in the latter position have to register
    retrospectively, and hope that their previous clients will now be
    willing to cough up the extra (which they're not obliged to do).

    Sylvia.

  18. #18
    Ext User(Andy) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:04:08 GMT, quietguy
    <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:

    >I think you are mistaken there Andy.


    I'm not actually, you just misunderstood the meaning of the
    explanations that were given.

    I see Sylvia has already clarified it for you quite correctly, so I
    won't bother repeating it again here. :)

    Cheers...

    >For example, as a hobby farmer who
    >earns less than $50,000 pa from farm activity I am not required or
    >allowed to charge GST on the cattle I sell - whereas my neighbors who
    >are 'real' farmers are obliged to charge GST on their livetock sales.
    >When I sell throught through the local livestock marketing center (as I
    >always do) I am required to complete a 'no GST applicable' form.
    >
    >David
    >
    >Andy wrote:
    >
    >> .....
    >> >> My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    >> >> is still required to charge GST on services and goods,
    >> >
    >> >You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.

    >>
    >> That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    >> collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    >>



  19. #19
    Ext User(sarahs choice) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Andy wrote:
    > On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:04:08 GMT, quietguy
    > <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:
    >
    >> I think you are mistaken there Andy.

    >
    > I'm not actually, you just misunderstood the meaning of the
    > explanations that were given.
    >
    > I see Sylvia has already clarified it for you quite correctly, so I
    > won't bother repeating it again here. :)
    >
    > Cheers...
    >
    >> For example, as a hobby farmer who
    >> earns less than $50,000 pa from farm activity I am not required or
    >> allowed to charge GST on the cattle I sell - whereas my neighbors who
    >> are 'real' farmers are obliged to charge GST on their livetock sales.
    >> When I sell throught through the local livestock marketing center (as I
    >> always do) I am required to complete a 'no GST applicable' form.
    >>
    >> David
    >>
    >> Andy wrote:
    >>
    >>> .....
    >>>>> My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    >>>>> is still required to charge GST on services and goods,
    >>>> You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.
    >>> That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    >>> collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    >>>

    >


    tick,tick,tick...

  20. #20
    Ext User(Rod Speed) Guest

    Re: Not registered for GST but charging GST

    Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
    > quietguy wrote:
    >
    >> I think you are mistaken there Andy. For example, as a hobby farmer
    >> who earns less than $50,000 pa from farm activity I am not required
    >> or allowed to charge GST on the cattle I sell - whereas my neighbors
    >> who are 'real' farmers are obliged to charge GST on their livetock
    >> sales. When I sell throught through the local livestock marketing
    >> center (as I always do) I am required to complete a 'no GST
    >> applicable' form. David
    >>
    >> Andy wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> .....
    >>>
    >>>>> My understanding is that a non GST registered company
    >>>>> is still required to charge GST on services and goods,
    >>>>
    >>>> You're wrong if their total turnover is below a specified limit.
    >>>
    >>> That's only relevant to whether or not they have to register to
    >>> collect the GST stupid. Nothing to do with the topic at hand.


    > The situation is that you cannot charge GST unless you're registered for it. It makes no
    > difference what your turnover is.


    Wrong, as always.

    > However, if your turnoever is above the threshold, then you're obliged to be registered.


    So it clearly DOES make a difference what your turnover is, ****wit.

    > So it's possible to be above the threshold, but, unlawfully, not be registered. In that
    > case, not withstanding the obligation to be registered, it is unlawful to charge GST.
    > Even though it cannot be charged, the tax man can demand that it be remitted.


    Irrelevant to the point being discussed in this subthread.

    > People who find themselves in the latter position have to register
    > retrospectively, and hope that their previous clients will now be
    > willing to cough up the extra (which they're not obliged to do).


    Not a ****ing clue, as always.



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