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Thread: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

  1. #21
    Ext User(JJ) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:31:48 +0000 (UTC), jan wrote:
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:10:16 -0400, Paul wrote:
    >
    >> "msiexec /i Minimal.msi INSTALLDIR=c:\MinimalTest"

    >
    > I hopefully tried this, but, it didn't do anything.
    > It brought up the acceptance screen, but nothing else.
    > Maybe I have the syntax wrong?


    Some MSI packages use its own variable instead of the INSTALLDIR.

    Use SuperORCA to find out what variable is being used to specify the
    installation folder. Warning: Use a backup copy of the MSI instead of the
    original! Otherwise, SuperORCA can modify the MSI without warning.

  2. #22
    Ext User(p-0''0-h the cat (ES)) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 03:19:05 +0200, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net>
    wrote:

    >On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:04:59 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (ES)"
    ><super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:50:11 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    >>>and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    >>>*ask* where it should go!
    >>>
    >>>I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    >>>wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    >>>variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >>>
    >>>Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    >>>the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    >>>belongs?

    >>
    >>It belongs in Program Files. The only mismanagement here is end user.
    >>Get a life.

    >
    >But you can have a \Program Files\ directory on any of several partitions, and
    >might want to use one on another drive if the C: drive is running out of
    >space.


    You might create a directory called Program Files on another partition
    on Windows 7, but it's not going to support file and registry
    virtualisation without some registry hacks and I'm not aware whether the
    registry hacks support multiples. Then there's the issue of the Common
    Files directory. Post Vista the Program Files and Common files are NTFS
    junction points as well, the whole lot ties in with UAC, so God knows
    what else you are messing with. Best left alone.

    >So an installer that insists on installing it on the C: drive is a poor
    >installer.


    Who knows. Maybe the developer had a reason. Has anyone asked?

    --
    p-0.0-h the cat

    Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
    Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
    Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
    the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
    the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
    shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
    smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
    liar, and shill.

    Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
    By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.



  3. #23
    Ext User(Darklight) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    jan wrote:

    > Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    > and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    > *ask* where it should go!
    >
    > I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    > wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    > variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >
    > Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    > the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    > belongs?


    Question: Where dose DeVeDe belong?

  4. #24
    Ext User(G. Morgan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    JJ wrote:

    >Use SuperORCA to find out what variable is being used to specify the
    >installation folder. Warning: Use a backup copy of the MSI instead of the
    >original! Otherwise, SuperORCA can modify the MSI without warning.


    Looks nice, thanks for the heads up on that one.

    Here is the link for it:
    http://www.pantaray.com/msi_super_orca.html




    --

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
    deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin

  5. #25
    Ext User(dadiOH) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    "jan" <jan@is.invalid> wrote in message
    news:l1sgc4$j4l$1@news.albasani.net
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:50:29 -0500, philo wrote:
    >
    > > If the program works, then it is where it belongs.

    >
    > I keep my operating system on a separate partition from
    > the files I care about.
    >
    > Whether the program 'works' is only a baseline
    > consideration.
    >
    > What matters to me is to think deeper than just whether
    > a program executes.
    >
    > I have a comprehensive backup system, which includes
    > putting programs I care about on a separate partition.
    >
    > So, for me, it matters *where* a program is installed.
    >
    > Do you know of any "relocator" programs that will move
    > the installed DeVeDe to the partition where I want it
    > to be?


    My suggestion would be to just move it where you want it.

    Most will say that won't work, citing registry entries. My experience is
    that it does work *most* of the time as - when first run - the moved
    program makes new registry entries.

    For example, when I moved from Win98 to WinXP I had dozens - maybe
    hundreds - of program installed under Win98. The thought of re-installing
    them was less than attractive so I didn't; instead, I stuck the Win98 hard
    drive in as a non-OS disk and run the programs via the shortcuts already
    extant on it. Very few have refused to run; of those, most were paid
    programs requiring a key...re-enter the key and all was well; some didn't
    run because they were dependent on some system file in Win98 that was
    lacking in XP...copy that file(s) to XP and all was well. A few - VERY
    few - required re-intallation.


    --

    dadiOH
    ____________________________

    Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
    Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
    Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net



  6. #26
    Ext User(Wolf K) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 2013-09-25 1:47 AM, JJ wrote:
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:31:48 +0000 (UTC), jan wrote:
    >> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:10:16 -0400, Paul wrote:
    >>
    >>> "msiexec /i Minimal.msi INSTALLDIR=c:\MinimalTest"

    >>
    >> I hopefully tried this, but, it didn't do anything.
    >> It brought up the acceptance screen, but nothing else.
    >> Maybe I have the syntax wrong?

    >
    > Some MSI packages use its own variable instead of the INSTALLDIR.
    >
    > Use SuperORCA to find out what variable is being used to specify the
    > installation folder. Warning: Use a backup copy of the MSI instead of the
    > original! Otherwise, SuperORCA can modify the MSI without warning.



    Cut to the chase: Portable Apps is the best way to to what OP wants to
    do, which is to isolate his programs from system crashes. There is a
    suite of programs available on the Portable Apps site, and some
    open-source programmers also provide portable versions. You can run
    Portable Apps from your HDD if you like. I'd put it on a separate disk.

    FWIW, I run Tbird, Firefox, and couple of productivity apps from a 16GB
    USB memory stick. Data can be saved anywhere. Only downside is that MS
    programs aren't portable, which may be a deal breaker for you.

    --
    Best,
    Wolf K
    kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

  7. #27
    Ext User(Ken Blake) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:33:39 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:

    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:45:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
    >
    > > It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    > > can't be relied on.

    >
    > Well, I agree - as I've used COA to move things in the past, and,
    > it only works for the easy stuff (which this might be).
    >
    > But it wouldn't be needed if the program simply asked where you
    > want to install it.



    I don't agree. Whether or not it asked, someone could accept the
    default of C: many times, then run out of space on C: and want to move
    some to D:

    Or not accept the default of C: and put programs on D:, then run out
    of space on D: and want to move some to C: or E:.

    Or for whatever reason, want to restructure the size of the various
    partitions on his drive.

    A program that did this and worked perfectly would be a good thing for
    many people.


  8. #28
    Ext User(John Williamson) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    Ken Blake wrote:
    > Or for whatever reason, want to restructure the size of the various
    > partitions on his drive.
    >
    > A program that did this and worked perfectly would be a good thing for
    > many people.
    >

    There are a number of programs that can resize live partitions without
    data loss to reduce the "I made the partition too small" problem. That's
    how I migrated from a 160Gig HD to a 500 Gig one on this laptop. Clone
    the HD to the new drive, then run the partition resizer.

    One that I've used sucessfully is GParted Live, which boots from a CD
    that you burn.

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

  9. #29
    Ext User(cully when) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 9/25/2013 11:37 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:33:39 +0000 (UTC), jan<jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:45:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
    >>
    >>> It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    >>> can't be relied on.

    >>
    >> Well, I agree - as I've used COA to move things in the past, and,
    >> it only works for the easy stuff (which this might be).
    >>
    >> But it wouldn't be needed if the program simply asked where you
    >> want to install it.

    >
    >
    > I don't agree. Whether or not it asked, someone could accept the
    > default of C: many times, then run out of space on C: and want to move
    > some to D:
    >
    > Or not accept the default of C: and put programs on D:, then run out
    > of space on D: and want to move some to C: or E:.
    >
    > Or for whatever reason, want to restructure the size of the various
    > partitions on his drive.
    >
    > A program that did this and worked perfectly would be a good thing for
    > many people.
    >


    I prefer "portable apps" that can be installed where you want or apps
    that allow you to install where you want. I also use an uninstaller app
    that tracks where the files are installed and what registry entries are
    made (for easier uninstalling). This makes for easier backup and
    keeping the c: partition to a minimum size.

    However, there are apps hard coded to install in the standard program
    files directories. And there are apps that utilize "COMMON" directories
    to install shared objects and apps that install components in SYSTEM32.

    Yes, it would be nice to have software that would be able to move an
    application wherever you want but it would have to be clairvoyant and
    have the ability to exercise that clairvoyance in the past (time travel).

    There are workarounds for those of us that prefer the operating system
    on C:, programs on another partition and and data on yet another
    partition for ease of backup and imaging. Even these workarounds are
    not perfect and must be taken into consideration when installing new apps.

  10. #30
    Ext User(Steve Hayes) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:58:13 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (ES)"
    <super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:

    >On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 03:19:05 +0200, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:04:59 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (ES)"
    >><super.pooh@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:50:11 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Just installed the venerable GNU DeVeDe freeware on Windows 7
    >>>>and was appalled that the msi from www.devede.org doesn't even
    >>>>*ask* where it should go!
    >>>>
    >>>>I thought only the large companies (e.g., Adobe, Microsoft, Apple)
    >>>>wrote the badly behaved installers; but I guess even the gnu
    >>>>variants can suffer from developer mismanagement.
    >>>>
    >>>>Since Gnu DeVeDe created its own Program Files hierarchy, what's
    >>>>the best free way to move it (and any registry entries) to where it
    >>>>belongs?
    >>>
    >>>It belongs in Program Files. The only mismanagement here is end user.
    >>>Get a life.

    >>
    >>But you can have a \Program Files\ directory on any of several partitions, and
    >>might want to use one on another drive if the C: drive is running out of
    >>space.

    >
    >You might create a directory called Program Files on another partition
    >on Windows 7, but it's not going to support file and registry
    >virtualisation without some registry hacks and I'm not aware whether the
    >registry hacks support multiples. Then there's the issue of the Common
    >Files directory. Post Vista the Program Files and Common files are NTFS
    >junction points as well, the whole lot ties in with UAC, so God knows
    >what else you are messing with. Best left alone.


    I didn't create such a directory -- the programs created it when I installed
    them.

    And they've managed to find their registry entries and all that.


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

  11. #31
    Ext User(FredW) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:33:39 +0000 (UTC), jan <jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >But it wouldn't be needed if the program simply asked where you
    >want to install it.
    >
    >(Alnmost) every other program asks. Why not DeVeDe?



    Why is the sky blue?

    Ask devede.org !

    --
    Fred W. (NL)

  12. #32
    Ext User(Ken Blake) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:41:08 -0400, cully when <cullywhen@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    > On 9/25/2013 11:37 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:33:39 +0000 (UTC), jan<jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:45:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    > >>> can't be relied on.
    > >>
    > >> Well, I agree - as I've used COA to move things in the past, and,
    > >> it only works for the easy stuff (which this might be).
    > >>
    > >> But it wouldn't be needed if the program simply asked where you
    > >> want to install it.

    > >
    > >
    > > I don't agree. Whether or not it asked, someone could accept the
    > > default of C: many times, then run out of space on C: and want to move
    > > some to D:
    > >
    > > Or not accept the default of C: and put programs on D:, then run out
    > > of space on D: and want to move some to C: or E:.
    > >
    > > Or for whatever reason, want to restructure the size of the various
    > > partitions on his drive.
    > >
    > > A program that did this and worked perfectly would be a good thing for
    > > many people.
    > >

    >
    > I prefer "portable apps" that can be installed where you want or apps
    > that allow you to install where you want.



    No argument from me. I do too. But that really has nothing to do with
    my point above.


    > I also use an uninstaller app
    > that tracks where the files are installed and what registry entries are
    > made (for easier uninstalling). This makes for easier backup and
    > keeping the c: partition to a minimum size.



    But unlike you, I see no real value in keeping the C: partition a
    minimum size.


    > However, there are apps hard coded to install in the standard program
    > files directories. And there are apps that utilize "COMMON" directories
    > to install shared objects and apps that install components in SYSTEM32.



    Yes, that's what this thread has been about.


    > Yes, it would be nice to have software that would be able to move an
    > application wherever you want but it would have to be clairvoyant and
    > have the ability to exercise that clairvoyance in the past (time travel).



    Why does it need to be clairvoyant? All it needs to be able to do is
    change the choice that you had made.


    > There are workarounds for those of us that prefer the operating system
    > on C:, programs on another partition and and data on yet another
    > partition for ease of backup and imaging.



    I understand that are many of you who prefer the drive partitioned
    that way, but it's by and large a mistake, as far as I'm concerned.
    Having your data on a separate partition can be useful if you backup
    just the data, but it's not useful for imaging. And have your program
    installations on a partition separate from Windows really has no value
    at all. You can not restore backed-up programs without also restoring
    backed-up Windows.


  13. #33
    Ext User(Gene E. Bloch) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:17:13 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

    >> Yes, it would be nice to have software that would be able to move an
    >> application wherever you want but it would have to be clairvoyant and
    >> have the ability to exercise that clairvoyance in the past (time travel).


    > Why does it need to be clairvoyant? All it needs to be able to do is
    > change the choice that you had made.


    When I first read that remark, my thought was "clairvoyance in the
    past"? That's the definition of "memory".

    --
    Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

  14. #34
    Ext User(cully when) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 9/25/2013 3:17 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    > On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:41:08 -0400, cully when<cullywhen@gmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 9/25/2013 11:37 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:33:39 +0000 (UTC), jan<jan@is.invalid> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:45:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> It's for that reason that I recommend against all such programs; they
    >>>>> can't be relied on.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, I agree - as I've used COA to move things in the past, and,
    >>>> it only works for the easy stuff (which this might be).
    >>>>
    >>>> But it wouldn't be needed if the program simply asked where you
    >>>> want to install it.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't agree. Whether or not it asked, someone could accept the
    >>> default of C: many times, then run out of space on C: and want to move
    >>> some to D:
    >>>
    >>> Or not accept the default of C: and put programs on D:, then run out
    >>> of space on D: and want to move some to C: or E:.
    >>>
    >>> Or for whatever reason, want to restructure the size of the various
    >>> partitions on his drive.
    >>>
    >>> A program that did this and worked perfectly would be a good thing for
    >>> many people.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I prefer "portable apps" that can be installed where you want or apps
    >> that allow you to install where you want.

    >
    >
    > No argument from me. I do too. But that really has nothing to do with
    > my point above.
    >
    >
    >> I also use an uninstaller app
    >> that tracks where the files are installed and what registry entries are
    >> made (for easier uninstalling). This makes for easier backup and
    >> keeping the c: partition to a minimum size.

    >
    >
    > But unlike you, I see no real value in keeping the C: partition a
    > minimum size.
    >
    >
    >> However, there are apps hard coded to install in the standard program
    >> files directories. And there are apps that utilize "COMMON" directories
    >> to install shared objects and apps that install components in SYSTEM32.

    >
    >
    > Yes, that's what this thread has been about.
    >
    >
    >> Yes, it would be nice to have software that would be able to move an
    >> application wherever you want but it would have to be clairvoyant and
    >> have the ability to exercise that clairvoyance in the past (time travel).

    >
    >
    > Why does it need to be clairvoyant? All it needs to be able to do is
    > change the choice that you had made.
    >
    >
    >> There are workarounds for those of us that prefer the operating system
    >> on C:, programs on another partition and and data on yet another
    >> partition for ease of backup and imaging.

    >
    >
    > I understand that are many of you who prefer the drive partitioned
    > that way, but it's by and large a mistake, as far as I'm concerned.
    > Having your data on a separate partition can be useful if you backup
    > just the data, but it's not useful for imaging. And have your program
    > installations on a partition separate from Windows really has no value
    > at all. You can not restore backed-up programs without also restoring
    > backed-up Windows.
    >


    It is NOT a mistake since I have three PCs (XP and Win 7) setup that way
    and it works. I backup my data and programs daily since that is what
    matters to me and image the OS periodically. I keep backup copies of
    the registry for the time between images. I CAN replace apps without
    re-imaging and have done so.

    Apparently you don't understand that many apps not only place their
    programs in a specified directory, they also place pieces in many
    different locations. Building software that can read minds of
    developers is not possible in my world. I apologize for attempting to help.

  15. #35
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:23:50 +0100, Desk Rabbit wrote:

    > I think what you meant to do was to store your irreplaceable data on a
    > separate partition and keep backup copies of your install media.


    I already do that.

    I think it's horrid that a program doesn't even *ask* where to
    be installed!

    I'm going to try the method of moving it that was suggested.

    Thanks.


  16. #36
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 07:39:14 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

    > My suggestion would be to just move it where you want it.


    It seemed to work!

    Thanks.

    PS: Now that was an easy answer!


  17. #37
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:58:13 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (ES) wrote:

    > Who knows. Maybe the developer had a reason. Has anyone asked?


    I can ask on the developer forum for DeVeDe.


  18. #38
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:04:08 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

    > Portable Apps is the best way to to what OP wants to do,
    > which is to isolate his programs from system crashes


    Actually, what I *really* want is for an installer which
    will simply *ask* where it should go.

    But, if we can't find that, then, portable apps would be
    a decent workaround.


  19. #39
    Ext User(Wolf K) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On 2013-09-25 7:02 PM, jan wrote:
    > On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:58:13 +0100, p-0''0-h the cat (ES) wrote:
    >
    >> Who knows. Maybe the developer had a reason. Has anyone asked?

    >
    > I can ask on the developer forum for DeVeDe.


    The reason is that it's easier to use the Microsoft developer tools than
    to write extra code for placing the program in its own folder, complete.
    These tools automatically place certain program-specific files into
    system folders. Some even create more than one program-specific folder,
    eg, the application data in the user's profile. Messy, but there it is.
    I suspect that a history of kluges underlies the mess.

    There is however no technical reason why the developer tools can't place
    all program-specific files in that program's folder. That's what
    Portable Apps does. The system calls are standard, in the sense that
    every program that needs a particular system resource will make the same
    call. The location of the calling program's files is irrelevant. When
    you install a program, needed registry keys are written, and again, the
    location of the program's files doesn't matter.

    HTH

    --
    Best,
    Wolf K
    kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

  20. #40
    Ext User(jan) Guest

    Re: How to MOVE a Windows program to where it belongs

    On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:37:57 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

    > A program that did this and worked perfectly would be a good thing for
    > many people.


    Agreed!


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