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Thread: Anyone able to contribute ?

  1. #81
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "Xeno Lith" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    news:l2rb4t$1f1$2@dont-email.me...
    > On 6/10/13 8:10 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    >> news:52510b5d$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    >>> On 06/10/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    >>>> assertion
    >>>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    >>>>
    >>>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been
    >>>> reports
    >>>> of
    >>>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    >>>> present
    >>>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    >>>> aren't
    >>>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> There were a lot more than one letter about excessive oil consumption
    >>> over
    >>> a period of a couple of weeks, I can't remember exactly how many but it
    >>> was around 4 and they all said much the same thing which would indicate
    >>> that there are quite a number of cars with the problem,

    >>
    >> Hardly. People like to whinge when there is a problem, and especially
    >> when
    >> they read others having the same problem. For everyone who complains you
    >> don't hear about the 100's that have no reason to.
    >>
    >>
    >> the
    >>> newspaper isn't going to print every letter they get on the same subject
    >>> so the only people who would know the extent of the problem would be
    >>> Holden and they aren't likely to make that info public.

    >>
    >> No manufacturer likes bad press. But Holden always was one of the more
    >> open
    >> companies in that regard. Recalls and reworks were never made secret
    >> unlike
    >> Ford where they would get done when the car was in for service without
    >> the
    >> customer knowing. Subaru and Suzuki simply don't acknowledge faults.
    >> According to them they simply don't occur, end of story.
    >>
    >> Getting them to pay a claim is almost impossible. Luckily not much goes
    >> wrong with them.
    >>
    >>> Its supposedly a problem with a breather and last time I read anything
    >>> about it dealers were waiting for Holden to release a fix.

    >>
    >> That was released last year or so. There are also plenty of reports of
    >> cars
    >> fixing themselves as if it's a running/oil issue. Perhaps people are
    >> getting
    >> their oil changed to synthetics too soon or wrong grade.
    >>
    >>
    >>> Any manufacturer can have can have problems with their products but IMO
    >>> its how they go about dealing with the problem and the way they treat
    >>> the
    >>> customer is what matters, some car dealers stuff people around for the
    >>> hell of it whilst others do the right thing.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Absolutely, Holden are nowhere near as open as they once were, but then
    >> there isn't people lining up to own locally produced stuff these days
    >> either.
    >>

    > There's a damn good reason for that!
    >



    There are numerous reasons.



  2. #82
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    news:52513015$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    > On 06/10/2013 8:10 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    >> news:52510b5d$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    >>> On 06/10/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    >>>> assertion
    >>>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    >>>>
    >>>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been
    >>>> reports
    >>>> of
    >>>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    >>>> present
    >>>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    >>>> aren't
    >>>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> There were a lot more than one letter about excessive oil consumption
    >>> over
    >>> a period of a couple of weeks, I can't remember exactly how many but it
    >>> was around 4 and they all said much the same thing which would indicate
    >>> that there are quite a number of cars with the problem,

    >>
    >> Hardly. People like to whinge when there is a problem, and especially
    >> when
    >> they read others having the same problem. For everyone who complains you
    >> don't hear about the 100's that have no reason to.

    >
    > True but it doesn't mean the problem isn't real, I once saw a warranty
    > claim for a Cortina alloy wheel claiming that the holes for the wheel
    > studs weren't drilled, if I hadn't seen the wheel with my own eyes I would
    > have said the claim was bullshit but it was spot on.
    >>
    >>
    >> the
    >>> newspaper isn't going to print every letter they get on the same subject
    >>> so the only people who would know the extent of the problem would be
    >>> Holden and they aren't likely to make that info public.

    >>
    >> No manufacturer likes bad press. But Holden always was one of the more
    >> open
    >> companies in that regard. Recalls and reworks were never made secret
    >> unlike
    >> Ford where they would get done when the car was in for service without
    >> the
    >> customer knowing. Subaru and Suzuki simply don't acknowledge faults.
    >> According to them they simply don't occur, end of story.

    >
    > That certainly wasn't the case when I worked for Ford but that was a long
    > time ago.


    As soon as a company starts to struggle they start messing with warranty as
    that's an area where they can save costs. For Ford, that was a long time
    ago. Holden not so long, but they're certainly up shit creek now.
    I don't know what Ford where like in your time there, but warranty
    chargebacks have been a huge problem for dealers since manufacturers have
    started clamping down on them.

    > Never had anything to do with Suzuki but Subaru have acknowledged problems
    > with us, even acknowledged that our recent gearbox problem is common but
    > that was the dealer not Subaru, we also got a recall letter for a part
    > that our car doesn't have.
    >>


    Don't tell Noddy, he'll be saying Subarus have a gearbox problem.
    Then again, when I was working for Subaru there were models with a fairly
    common gearbox problem and that was years ago.
    Don't ask me what it was, we had a resident Subaru "expert" who did all the
    Subaru gearboxes and he was unapproachable pommy ****.

    >> Getting them to pay a claim is almost impossible. Luckily not much goes
    >> wrong with them.
    >>
    >>> Its supposedly a problem with a breather and last time I read anything
    >>> about it dealers were waiting for Holden to release a fix.

    >>
    >> That was released last year or so.

    >
    > If that is correct it didn't work because the letter in the paper was this
    > year.
    >


    The cars mentioned weren't new IIRC.

    > There are also plenty of reports of cars
    >> fixing themselves as if it's a running/oil issue. Perhaps people are
    >> getting
    >> their oil changed to synthetics too soon or wrong grade.

    >
    > That's possible, my son's AE86 burns synthetic oil but is fine with
    > mineral oil.
    >


    I don't doubt that at all.

    Don't put Gulf Western oil in anything you own either (it's not synthetic)
    and forget any claims as to it's grade on the bottle. As soon as I put it in
    the Commodore every minor insignificant weep turned into a leak and it
    started blowing blue smoke.

    Back on the Magnatec, no more problems.



  3. #83
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    news:l2rjkd$mc0$1@dont-email.me...
    > On 06/10/13 8:10 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >
    >> Hardly. People like to whinge when there is a problem, and especially
    >> when
    >> they read others having the same problem. For everyone who complains you
    >> don't hear about the 100's that have no reason to.

    >
    > So that means that the people who have a problem *shouldn't* complain?
    >


    No, who suggested that. I would recommend they complain to the right people.
    Some joker writing for a tabloid isn't going to fix their car. Ofcourse if
    your intention is to vent and create bad press then it's the perfect avenue,
    nobody verifies the anecdotal "customer" complaints as being genuine.

    >> No manufacturer likes bad press. But Holden always was one of the more
    >> open
    >> companies in that regard.

    >
    > **** me Nelly...... :)
    >
    > This is the company who kept on selling GenIII equipped cars for *months*
    > despite knowing *well* in advance of every sale that the engines had
    > problems and that most owners would be affected.


    About 5% of owners were affected, that's not most.

    Not only
    > did they continue to sell *known* faulty cars,


    Yep, and they were held to account and fixed them in the end when a proper
    fix was determined by engineering. Same can't be said for Kia and the
    Carnival, or Toyota with the Rav 4, or Ford with any number of design
    faults.

    but they went out of
    > their way to cover up the fact that they were doing so even when every
    > motoring journal in the country was calling them for it and some going as
    > far as demanding that there be a recall.
    >


    > You have *got* to be ****ing joking....
    >


    Settle down, one example... and you completely ignore ever timely recall and
    rework that has been made public, every press release, every contact by
    letter and every person chased down for hundreds of issues over the years.
    They're far from perfect, but compared to other manufacturers they were
    pretty open.

    You wouldn't know anyway, not having seen the internal workings of Holden or
    having access to all the information including the fact that around *5%* of
    the early engines were affected. That was still a huge problem for the
    dealers though, having to rebuild so many engines so they managed the flow
    with interim "fixes".

    That's bad and could have been handled better, but again not the doomsday
    scenario your painting as per usual.


    >> Recalls and reworks were never made secret unlike
    >> Ford where they would get done when the car was in for service without
    >> the
    >> customer knowing.

    >
    > Ford's attitude has been piss poor for years, but that doesn't let Holden
    > off the hook. Nor does it make them a shining light by comparison. As much
    > as you might like to try and make them look.
    >


    Holden were a shining light by comparison. Ford's denial is epidemic, you
    would think it's company policy. I remember ringing a Ford foreman about a
    car that had a radiator issue and despite it being common knowledge he flat
    out denied having any such problems.
    I mean, really? Do they have to sign a NDA to work at a Ford dealership or
    something?

    >> Subaru and Suzuki simply don't acknowledge faults.
    >> According to them they simply don't occur, end of story.

    >
    > Don't forget Toyota. someone has to die before they think about doing
    > anything about their defective vehciles :)
    >


    Or Mitsubishi who were caught with drawers full of defects and recall
    recommendations.

    >> That was released last year or so. There are also plenty of reports of
    >> cars
    >> fixing themselves as if it's a running/oil issue. Perhaps people are
    >> getting
    >> their oil changed to synthetics too soon or wrong grade.

    >
    > Fixing *themselves*?
    >
    > Wow :)
    >


    > Absolutely, Holden are nowhere near as open as they once were, but then
    >> there isn't people lining up to own locally produced stuff these days
    >> either.

    >
    > So what are you saying? There degree of "openness" should depend on how
    > well they're doing?
    >


    No, why would you think that?
    What I'm clearly implying is that when money gets tight the warranty side of
    things gets clamped down on.

    > I hat e to burst your bubble, but the basic facts of the matter are that
    > Holden owners out there have problems, and the dealers (who are Holden's
    > representatives) are basically ****ing them about.
    >


    Really, so all those people having their cars assessed are being ****ed
    about? If that was the case, there would be many thousands of people
    complaining because, according to you the problem is wholesale - but there
    isn't is there Mr. Alarmist?


    > That might not be Holden's fault directly, but at the end of the day it's
    > Holden who makes the car and releases it for sale, and they call the shots
    > on how their franchisees operate.
    >


    Which has nothing to do with your alarmist assertion that there is a
    widespread problem with oil consumption.




  4. #84
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    news:l2r9cj$odp$3@dont-email.me...
    > On 06/10/13 5:17 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >
    >> Oh really?

    >
    > Yeah, really. Apparently it went high enough over your head to pass a
    > small planet through the gap and you not feel any gravitational pull.
    >



    Christ you're a ****ing noob...




  5. #85
    Ext User(Noddy) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 07/10/13 3:22 AM, Clocky wrote:

    > Don't tell Noddy, he'll be saying Subarus have a gearbox problem.
    > Then again, when I was working for Subaru there were models with a fairly
    > common gearbox problem and that was years ago.
    > Don't ask me what it was, we had a resident Subaru "expert" who did all the
    > Subaru gearboxes and he was unapproachable pommy ****.


    Oh. So you worked there but never got to find out. Strange :)

    > The cars mentioned weren't new IIRC.


    The cars in the various letters seemed to have all been bought new by
    their respective owners.

    Not that it matters, right?




    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.

  6. #86
    Ext User(D Walford) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 07/10/2013 3:22 AM, Clocky wrote:

    >> That certainly wasn't the case when I worked for Ford but that was a long
    >> time ago.

    >
    > As soon as a company starts to struggle they start messing with warranty as
    > that's an area where they can save costs. For Ford, that was a long time
    > ago. Holden not so long, but they're certainly up shit creek now.
    > I don't know what Ford where like in your time there, but warranty
    > chargebacks have been a huge problem for dealers since manufacturers have
    > started clamping down on them.


    With the exception of Toyota all the local manufacturers have always
    "struggled", none have ever been particularly profitable, there was
    internal talk of Ford closing down back in the late 70's early 80's so
    they weren't doing all that well yet as far as I could see they didn't
    try to hide any problems and paid warranty genuine claims without too
    much argument.
    Dealers have bought some of the problem with warranty upon themselves,
    I've been out of it for a very long time but blatantly fraudulent
    warranty claims were common enough back then.
    >
    >> Never had anything to do with Suzuki but Subaru have acknowledged problems
    >> with us, even acknowledged that our recent gearbox problem is common but
    >> that was the dealer not Subaru, we also got a recall letter for a part
    >> that our car doesn't have.
    >>>

    >
    > Don't tell Noddy, he'll be saying Subarus have a gearbox problem.


    He would be correct.

    > Then again, when I was working for Subaru there were models with a fairly
    > common gearbox problem and that was years ago.


    By the sound of it its the same problem, ours needed a new selector fork
    and they knew what the problem was before they dismantled the gearbox,
    it hadn't gotten bad enough to actual jump out of third but it was
    heading that way.
    They claim that the problem is caused by drivers constantly resting a
    hand on the gear lever which wears the selector but I know for sure that
    it isn't true in our case.


    > The cars mentioned weren't new IIRC.


    They weren't but hardly all that old with all having done less than
    50,000km.

    --
    Daryl

  7. #87
    Ext User(Noddy) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 07/10/13 4:11 AM, Clocky wrote:

    > No, who suggested that.


    You seemed to be.

    > I would recommend they complain to the right people.


    They *were* complaining to the right people. Every single one of them
    had complained to their respective dealer and every single one of them
    appears to have been told it was nothing to worry about and to **** off.

    It's be unreasonable to suggest that they're all customers of the same
    dealership, which would make it reasonable to assume there is a fair
    degree of "not giving a flying ****" attitude prevalent amongst Holden
    Dealers.

    > Some joker writing for a tabloid isn't going to fix their car.


    Of course he's not, but then even you could probably work out that
    that's not why he's there.

    > Ofcourse if your intention is to vent and create bad press then it's the perfect avenue,
    > nobody verifies the anecdotal "customer" complaints as being genuine.


    But this is where you're wrong Mr. Apologist.

    One of the things Smith does on behalf of the people who write in is
    forward their complaints on to the manufacturer directly, and it's quite
    interesting to see the response that often comes with the complaint
    being outlined on official "Herald-Sun" letterhead. Especially when the
    owner has complained directly to the manufacturer themselves and got
    nowhere.

    There's been a number of cases where such action has resulted in a
    satisfactory outcome for the owner, and it's always interesting to see a
    manufacturer have a "re-appraisal" of their initial decision after the
    media gets involved :)

    Of course, if none of these complaints were "genuine", as you seem to be
    implying, then there would be no reason to do that, right?

    > About 5% of owners were affected, that's not most.


    ROTFL :)

    You're kidding, right? THere was a stage when just about every GenIII
    powered dunny was suspected of needing it's engine replaced.

    Tell me. How does a low radial tension piston ring only affect 5 percent
    of engines when it was an entire batch of rings that were faulty?

    > Yep, and they were held to account and fixed them in the end when a proper
    > fix was determined by engineering. Same can't be said for Kia and the
    > Carnival, or Toyota with the Rav 4, or Ford with any number of design
    > faults.


    We've been through this before. The actions of others are *not* a
    benchmark by which Holden (or anyone else) should judge themselves. You
    either do the wrong thing or you don't, and you're not slightly less
    wrong just because you don't do it as bad as the next guy.

    Holden very definitely did the wrong thing, and the "fix", which was an
    in chassis re-ring by dealership staff, was total ****ing bullshit. Each
    and every one of those customers should have got a brand new engine.

    That's what they paid for.

    > Settle down, one example...


    One very bad example that highlights perfectly that they are *far* from
    the open & honest company that exists in your fairy tale imagination.

    > and you completely ignore ever timely recall and
    > rework that has been made public, every press release, every contact by
    > letter and every person chased down for hundreds of issues over the years.
    > They're far from perfect, but compared to other manufacturers they were
    > pretty open.


    What a load of mealy mouthed ****ing crap :)

    Holden are not the slightest not different than anyone else in that if
    they think they can get away with something they'll try it on. And they
    have done *many* times.

    Maybe you should run this idea past the guy in NSW who bought a brand
    new VH Commodore that broke cleanly in half after a relatively light
    accident and when he tried to sue Holden after his insurer scrubbed the
    car as being faulty, Holden bankrupted him.

    > You wouldn't know anyway, not having seen the internal workings of Holden or
    > having access to all the information including the fact that around *5%* of
    > the early engines were affected. That was still a huge problem for the
    > dealers though, having to rebuild so many engines so they managed the flow
    > with interim "fixes".


    So they bodged it up in other words.

    > That's bad and could have been handled better, but again not the doomsday
    > scenario your painting as per usual.


    How is what you're saying any different to what I'm saying, apart from
    the fact that you're looking at the issue from the point of view of
    someone who because he once worked at a dealership feels he needs to
    defend the company to the death?

    > Holden were a shining light by comparison.


    You're away with the ****ing fairies you complete idiot :)

    > Ford's denial is epidemic, you would think it's company policy.
    > I remember ringing a Ford foreman about a
    > car that had a radiator issue and despite it being common knowledge he flat
    > out denied having any such problems.


    What, like you saying that the V6 doesn't have oil issues? :)

    > I mean, really? Do they have to sign a NDA to work at a Ford dealership or
    > something?


    I don't think so, but then if they did I can't see how it's be any
    different to your situation. I presume you haven't worked for a Holden
    Dealer for some time but you'll probably defend the marque with a
    passion until you die. And you clearly don't think that's ****ing crazy,
    but see the exact same behaviour in *other* people as bananas.

    Go figure :)

    > No, why would you think that?


    Because that's what you seem to be saying. You don't seem to be able to
    make a comment without adding a qualifier of some description.

    > Really, so all those people having their cars assessed are being ****ed
    > about?


    Apparently, but you know they're not, right?

    > If that was the case, there would be many thousands of people
    > complaining because, according to you the problem is wholesale - but there
    > isn't is there Mr. Alarmist?


    That would depend on how gullible the owner actually is. I would suggest
    there's a great many who are prepared to take the service department's
    advice as gospel, and I saw *plenty* of evidence of that willingness
    when I was a service manager myself.

    > Which has nothing to do with your alarmist assertion that there is a
    > widespread problem with oil consumption.


    The evidence is out there and I gave you a glimpse of it in another
    post. If you want to ignore that while swimming in denial that's *your*
    choice, but it doesn't make you look particularly clever.



    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.

  8. #88
    Ext User(jonz) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 10/7/2013 2:52 AM, Clocky wrote:
    > "Xeno Lith" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:l2r98o$p3c$1@dont-email.me...
    >> On 6/10/13 7:25 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>> "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:l2qvnt$ehu$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>> On 10/6/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:5250e34b$0$29900$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    >>>>>> On 06/10/2013 10:30 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:l2p6an$d5v$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>>>>>> On 05/10/13 9:21 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Interesting that you should pick on this problem, one you have over
    >>>>>>>>> exaggerated greatly to suit your end btw.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> How many times do you need to be told that I just quoted a passage
    >>>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>>> text
    >>>>>>>> pretty much verbatim? What is it about that that simply doesn't
    >>>>>>>> register
    >>>>>>>> with you?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I didn't "exaggerate" a single thing, but relayed the story exactly
    >>>>>>>> as
    >>>>>>>> it
    >>>>>>>> appeared in the paper you silly ****,
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You did not, you made exaggerated claim about 5-7L oil usage being
    >>>>>>> deemed
    >>>>>>> normal by Holden before revealing that the article did in fact never
    >>>>>>> claim
    >>>>>>> that. It was one extreme "customer complaint" example, which Holden
    >>>>>>> would
    >>>>>>> never deem as normal.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It was what was claimed in the article, I also don't believe that
    >>>>>> Holden
    >>>>>> would say that it was normal but the person writing the letter stated
    >>>>>> that
    >>>>>> they said it was.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yep, that's what they said. The claim is BS, you know it, I know it.
    >>>>> But
    >>>>> not
    >>>>> Noddy who is happy to write off an entire engine based on some
    >>>>> anecdotal
    >>>>> reports of oil usage.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> and as I told you at the time
    >>>>>>>> if you had an issue with it you needed to take it up with the
    >>>>>>>> columnist
    >>>>>>>> who printed the thing.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I even gave you his ****ing email address :)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Did you?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I posted a link to the article as well.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    >>>>> assertion
    >>>>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been
    >>>>> reports
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    >>>>> present
    >>>>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    >>>>> aren't
    >>>>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >>>> Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Plenty of oil burning V6 Magnas around these days so I wouldn't be so
    >>> smug.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> But they aren't exactly "new", are they?
    >>

    >
    > Neither are VE's, and Jonz seems to be recommending them as a zero problem
    > alternative.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I was? news to me..
    >
    >
    >
    >



    --
    “Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea- massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
    boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it”

  9. #89
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    news:l2so3n$dns$1@dont-email.me...
    > On 07/10/13 3:22 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >
    >> Don't tell Noddy, he'll be saying Subarus have a gearbox problem.
    >> Then again, when I was working for Subaru there were models with a fairly
    >> common gearbox problem and that was years ago.
    >> Don't ask me what it was, we had a resident Subaru "expert" who did all
    >> the
    >> Subaru gearboxes and he was unapproachable pommy ****.

    >
    > Oh. So you worked there but never got to find out. Strange :)
    >


    Not at all. Multifranchise dealers have departments.
    Something else you didn't know.

    >> The cars mentioned weren't new IIRC.

    >
    > The cars in the various letters seemed to have all been bought new by
    > their respective owners.
    >
    > Not that it matters, right?
    >


    It doesn't matter to you.



  10. #90
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    news:l2stpf$879$1@dont-email.me...
    > On 10/7/2013 2:52 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >> "Xeno Lith" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    >> news:l2r98o$p3c$1@dont-email.me...
    >>> On 6/10/13 7:25 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>> "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:l2qvnt$ehu$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>>> On 10/6/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:5250e34b$0$29900$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    >>>>>>> On 06/10/2013 10:30 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>>> "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>> news:l2p6an$d5v$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>>>>>>> On 05/10/13 9:21 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Interesting that you should pick on this problem, one you have
    >>>>>>>>>> over
    >>>>>>>>>> exaggerated greatly to suit your end btw.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> How many times do you need to be told that I just quoted a passage
    >>>>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>>>> text
    >>>>>>>>> pretty much verbatim? What is it about that that simply doesn't
    >>>>>>>>> register
    >>>>>>>>> with you?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> I didn't "exaggerate" a single thing, but relayed the story
    >>>>>>>>> exactly
    >>>>>>>>> as
    >>>>>>>>> it
    >>>>>>>>> appeared in the paper you silly ****,
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You did not, you made exaggerated claim about 5-7L oil usage being
    >>>>>>>> deemed
    >>>>>>>> normal by Holden before revealing that the article did in fact
    >>>>>>>> never
    >>>>>>>> claim
    >>>>>>>> that. It was one extreme "customer complaint" example, which Holden
    >>>>>>>> would
    >>>>>>>> never deem as normal.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> It was what was claimed in the article, I also don't believe that
    >>>>>>> Holden
    >>>>>>> would say that it was normal but the person writing the letter
    >>>>>>> stated
    >>>>>>> that
    >>>>>>> they said it was.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Yep, that's what they said. The claim is BS, you know it, I know it.
    >>>>>> But
    >>>>>> not
    >>>>>> Noddy who is happy to write off an entire engine based on some
    >>>>>> anecdotal
    >>>>>> reports of oil usage.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> and as I told you at the time
    >>>>>>>>> if you had an issue with it you needed to take it up with the
    >>>>>>>>> columnist
    >>>>>>>>> who printed the thing.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> I even gave you his ****ing email address :)
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Did you?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I posted a link to the article as well.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    >>>>>> assertion
    >>>>>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been
    >>>>>> reports
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    >>>>>> present
    >>>>>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    >>>>>> aren't
    >>>>>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >>>>> Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Plenty of oil burning V6 Magnas around these days so I wouldn't be so
    >>>> smug.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> But they aren't exactly "new", are they?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Neither are VE's, and Jonz seems to be recommending them as a zero
    >> problem
    >> alternative.

    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > I was? news to me..


    So what did you mean when you replied to the topic of supposed problems with
    some VE V6's with...

    "Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)"




  11. #91
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    news:5251e4f7$0$29886$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    > On 07/10/2013 3:22 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >
    >>> That certainly wasn't the case when I worked for Ford but that was a
    >>> long
    >>> time ago.

    >>
    >> As soon as a company starts to struggle they start messing with warranty
    >> as
    >> that's an area where they can save costs. For Ford, that was a long time
    >> ago. Holden not so long, but they're certainly up shit creek now.
    >> I don't know what Ford where like in your time there, but warranty
    >> chargebacks have been a huge problem for dealers since manufacturers have
    >> started clamping down on them.

    >
    > With the exception of Toyota all the local manufacturers have always
    > "struggled", none have ever been particularly profitable, there was
    > internal talk of Ford closing down back in the late 70's early 80's so
    > they weren't doing all that well yet as far as I could see they didn't try
    > to hide any problems and paid warranty genuine claims without too much
    > argument.
    > Dealers have bought some of the problem with warranty upon themselves,
    > I've been out of it for a very long time but blatantly fraudulent warranty
    > claims were common enough back then.
    >>
    >>> Never had anything to do with Suzuki but Subaru have acknowledged
    >>> problems
    >>> with us, even acknowledged that our recent gearbox problem is common but
    >>> that was the dealer not Subaru, we also got a recall letter for a part
    >>> that our car doesn't have.
    >>>>

    >>
    >> Don't tell Noddy, he'll be saying Subarus have a gearbox problem.

    >
    > He would be correct.
    >


    Better tell Noddy's motoring writer, he's clearly not very well informed on
    problem vehicles from other manufacturers it seems.

    >> Then again, when I was working for Subaru there were models with a fairly
    >> common gearbox problem and that was years ago.

    >
    > By the sound of it its the same problem, ours needed a new selector fork
    > and they knew what the problem was before they dismantled the gearbox, it
    > hadn't gotten bad enough to actual jump out of third but it was heading
    > that way.
    > They claim that the problem is caused by drivers constantly resting a hand
    > on the gear lever which wears the selector but I know for sure that it
    > isn't true in our case.
    >
    >
    >> The cars mentioned weren't new IIRC.

    >
    > They weren't but hardly all that old with all having done less than
    > 50,000km.


    The point being that they may well not have had the fix applied yet.
    There are so many variables with anecdotal stories...

    If you knew what I know some sales staff used to get up to in quiet times
    you wouldn't believe it.
    That's why I have very little regard to the stories you read in motoring
    editorials.

    [insert Noddy vitriol here]









  12. #92
    Ext User(jonz) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 10/7/2013 2:18 PM, Clocky wrote:
    > "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    > news:l2stpf$879$1@dont-email.me...
    >> On 10/7/2013 2:52 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>> "Xeno Lith" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    >>> news:l2r98o$p3c$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>> On 6/10/13 7:25 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>> "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:l2qvnt$ehu$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>>>> On 10/6/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:5250e34b$0$29900$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    >>>>>>>> On 06/10/2013 10:30 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>>> news:l2p6an$d5v$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/13 9:21 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Interesting that you should pick on this problem, one you have
    >>>>>>>>>>> over
    >>>>>>>>>>> exaggerated greatly to suit your end btw.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> How many times do you need to be told that I just quoted a passage
    >>>>>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>>>>> text
    >>>>>>>>>> pretty much verbatim? What is it about that that simply doesn't
    >>>>>>>>>> register
    >>>>>>>>>> with you?
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I didn't "exaggerate" a single thing, but relayed the story
    >>>>>>>>>> exactly
    >>>>>>>>>> as
    >>>>>>>>>> it
    >>>>>>>>>> appeared in the paper you silly ****,
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> You did not, you made exaggerated claim about 5-7L oil usage being
    >>>>>>>>> deemed
    >>>>>>>>> normal by Holden before revealing that the article did in fact
    >>>>>>>>> never
    >>>>>>>>> claim
    >>>>>>>>> that. It was one extreme "customer complaint" example, which Holden
    >>>>>>>>> would
    >>>>>>>>> never deem as normal.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> It was what was claimed in the article, I also don't believe that
    >>>>>>>> Holden
    >>>>>>>> would say that it was normal but the person writing the letter
    >>>>>>>> stated
    >>>>>>>> that
    >>>>>>>> they said it was.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yep, that's what they said. The claim is BS, you know it, I know it.
    >>>>>>> But
    >>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>> Noddy who is happy to write off an entire engine based on some
    >>>>>>> anecdotal
    >>>>>>> reports of oil usage.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> and as I told you at the time
    >>>>>>>>>> if you had an issue with it you needed to take it up with the
    >>>>>>>>>> columnist
    >>>>>>>>>> who printed the thing.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I even gave you his ****ing email address :)
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Did you?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I posted a link to the article as well.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    >>>>>>> assertion
    >>>>>>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been
    >>>>>>> reports
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    >>>>>>> present
    >>>>>>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    >>>>>>> aren't
    >>>>>>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >>>>>> Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Plenty of oil burning V6 Magnas around these days so I wouldn't be so
    >>>>> smug.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> But they aren't exactly "new", are they?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Neither are VE's, and Jonz seems to be recommending them as a zero
    >>> problem
    >>> alternative.

    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >> I was? news to me..

    >
    > So what did you mean when you replied to the topic of supposed problems with
    > some VE V6's with...
    >
    > "Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
    Only what was writ.......You searching for hidden meaning??......
    >
    >
    >



    --
    “Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea- massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
    boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it”

  13. #93
    Ext User(Clocky) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?


    "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    news:l2ssn2$3ih$1@dont-email.me...
    > On 07/10/13 4:11 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >
    >> No, who suggested that.

    >
    > You seemed to be.
    >
    >> I would recommend they complain to the right people.

    >
    > They *were* complaining to the right people. Every single one of them had
    > complained to their respective dealer and every single one of them appears
    > to have been told it was nothing to worry about and to **** off.
    >


    Every customer has a a Holden Customer Assistance card with a number they
    can ring to contact Holden directly for any problem.
    I know for a fact they chase it up with the dealer to find out what the
    story is.

    > It's be unreasonable to suggest that they're all customers of the same
    > dealership, which would make it reasonable to assume there is a fair
    > degree of "not giving a flying ****" attitude prevalent amongst Holden
    > Dealers.
    >


    Yep, there is quite a bit of that going on too but not just at Holden
    dealers.

    >> Some joker writing for a tabloid isn't going to fix their car.

    >
    > Of course he's not, but then even you could probably work out that that's
    > not why he's there.
    >


    He's there to present anecdotal stories and comment on them ACA/TT style?

    >> Ofcourse if your intention is to vent and create bad press then it's the
    >> perfect avenue,
    >> nobody verifies the anecdotal "customer" complaints as being genuine.

    >
    > But this is where you're wrong Mr. Apologist.
    >
    > One of the things Smith does on behalf of the people who write in is
    > forward their complaints on to the manufacturer directly, and it's quite
    > interesting to see the response that often comes with the complaint being
    > outlined on official "Herald-Sun" letterhead. Especially when the owner
    > has complained directly to the manufacturer themselves and got nowhere.
    >


    And the washup? Thought so...

    > There's been a number of cases where such action has resulted in a
    > satisfactory outcome for the owner, and it's always interesting to see a
    > manufacturer have a "re-appraisal" of their initial decision after the
    > media gets involved :)
    >
    > Of course, if none of these complaints were "genuine", as you seem to be
    > implying, then there would be no reason to do that, right?
    >
    >> About 5% of owners were affected, that's not most.

    >
    > ROTFL :)
    >
    > You're kidding, right? THere was a stage when just about every GenIII
    > powered dunny was suspected of needing it's engine replaced.
    >


    No, that's a lie. Only ~5% were affected, but there where a a shitload of
    them on the road so the alarmist in you has gone nuts.

    > Tell me. How does a low radial tension piston ring only affect 5 percent
    > of engines when it was an entire batch of rings that were faulty?
    >


    Small batch obviously. You do realise in the greater scheme of production it
    was a small number of Gen III's right?

    >> Yep, and they were held to account and fixed them in the end when a
    >> proper
    >> fix was determined by engineering. Same can't be said for Kia and the
    >> Carnival, or Toyota with the Rav 4, or Ford with any number of design
    >> faults.

    >
    > We've been through this before. The actions of others are *not* a
    > benchmark by which Holden (or anyone else) should judge themselves.


    As I said previously, Holden was one of the better ones.

    You
    > either do the wrong thing or you don't, and you're not slightly less wrong
    > just because you don't do it as bad as the next guy.
    >


    They're dealers, they suck, they have to deal with people that suck and deal
    with manufacturers that suck.
    Get over it.

    > Holden very definitely did the wrong thing, and the "fix", which was an in
    > chassis re-ring by dealership staff, was total ****ing bullshit. Each and
    > every one of those customers should have got a brand new engine.
    >


    The initial fix was dealership in-house and was fine but too slow they
    started coming from factory by crate as exchange units.

    > That's what they paid for.
    >
    >> Settle down, one example...

    >
    > One very bad example that highlights perfectly that they are *far* from
    > the open & honest company that exists in your fairy tale imagination.
    >


    I said they were relatively open and honest compared to the manufacturers
    who swept major issues under the rug.

    >> and you completely ignore ever timely recall and
    >> rework that has been made public, every press release, every contact by
    >> letter and every person chased down for hundreds of issues over the
    >> years.
    >> They're far from perfect, but compared to other manufacturers they were
    >> pretty open.

    >
    > What a load of mealy mouthed ****ing crap :)
    >


    It's a fact, and since you have nothing to do with the trade for decades you
    haven't a clue what went on at various dealers and with the different
    manufacturers.

    > Holden are not the slightest not different than anyone else in that if
    > they think they can get away with something they'll try it on. And they
    > have done *many* times.
    >


    Not nearly as many times as others, that's my point. I'm speaking from
    experience, you're speaking as a backyarder ****ing about with rusty shit
    with a trade account at Supercheap.

    > Maybe you should run this idea past the guy in NSW who bought a brand new
    > VH Commodore that broke cleanly in half after a relatively light accident
    > and when he tried to sue Holden after his insurer scrubbed the car as
    > being faulty, Holden bankrupted him.
    >


    Where you there were you or is that what Hinch told you happened?

    >> You wouldn't know anyway, not having seen the internal workings of Holden
    >> or
    >> having access to all the information including the fact that around *5%*
    >> of
    >> the early engines were affected. That was still a huge problem for the
    >> dealers though, having to rebuild so many engines so they managed the
    >> flow
    >> with interim "fixes".

    >
    > So they bodged it up in other words.
    >


    Yep, they did.

    >> That's bad and could have been handled better, but again not the doomsday
    >> scenario your painting as per usual.

    >
    > How is what you're saying any different to what I'm saying,


    You assert that ~5% of Gen III's, (which was bad enough) somehone equates
    the major ones that rolled out of the showroom.
    It doesn't.

    So, what then is your motivation for such alarmism?

    apart from
    > the fact that you're looking at the issue from the point of view of
    > someone who because he once worked at a dealership feels he needs to
    > defend the company to the death?
    >


    Providing a reasonable arguement against your rambling alarmist nonsene
    isn't "defending the company to death".

    >> Holden were a shining light by comparison.

    >
    > You're away with the ****ing fairies you complete idiot :)
    >
    >> Ford's denial is epidemic, you would think it's company policy.
    > > I remember ringing a Ford foreman about a
    >> car that had a radiator issue and despite it being common knowledge he
    >> flat
    >> out denied having any such problems.

    >
    > What, like you saying that the V6 doesn't have oil issues? :)
    >


    Some V6's have oil issues.

    >> I mean, really? Do they have to sign a NDA to work at a Ford dealership
    >> or
    >> something?

    >
    > I don't think so, but then if they did I can't see how it's be any
    > different to your situation. I presume you haven't worked for a Holden
    > Dealer for some time but you'll probably defend the marque with a passion
    > until you die. And you clearly don't think that's ****ing crazy, but see
    > the exact same behaviour in *other* people as bananas.
    >
    > Go figure :)


    You're the loon standing on the street corner yelling that the sky is
    falling, I'm just offering some perspective.

    >
    >> No, why would you think that?

    >
    > Because that's what you seem to be saying. You don't seem to be able to
    > make a comment without adding a qualifier of some description.
    >


    Because normal people don't live in Noddy's black and white world.

    >> Really, so all those people having their cars assessed are being ****ed
    >> about?

    >
    > Apparently, but you know they're not, right?
    >


    You don't know how many of those people getting assessed are perfectly happy
    with the way they are being dealt with. You have absolutely no ****ing idea.

    >> If that was the case, there would be many thousands of people
    >> complaining because, according to you the problem is wholesale - but
    >> there
    >> isn't is there Mr. Alarmist?

    >
    > That would depend on how gullible the owner actually is.


    Goalpost shift coming up.

    I would suggest
    > there's a great many who are prepared to take the service department's
    > advice as gospel, and I saw *plenty* of evidence of that willingness when
    > I was a service manager myself.
    >


    People believed your bullshit then too? Unbelievable.

    >> Which has nothing to do with your alarmist assertion that there is a
    >> widespread problem with oil consumption.

    >
    > The evidence is out there and I gave you a glimpse of it in another post.
    > If you want to ignore that while swimming in denial that's *your* choice,
    > but it doesn't make you look particularly clever.
    >


    Says the halfsmart who still maintains he had a PC in September 1981 along
    with other utter nonsense from that era.

    If ignorance was currency you would make Clive Palmer look destitute.



  14. #94
    Ext User(Albm&ctd) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    In article <l2r773$f5g$2@dont-email.me>, disco-v8@lotsafuel.com says...
    > On 10/6/2013 7:25 PM, Clocky wrote:
    > > "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    > > news:l2qvnt$ehu$1@dont-email.me...
    > >> On 10/6/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    > >>> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    > >>> news:5250e34b$0$29900$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    > >>>> On 06/10/2013 10:30 AM, Clocky wrote:
    > >>>>> "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    > >>>>> news:l2p6an$d5v$1@dont-email.me...
    > >>>>>> On 05/10/13 9:21 AM, Clocky wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>> Interesting that you should pick on this problem, one you have over
    > >>>>>>> exaggerated greatly to suit your end btw.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>> How many times do you need to be told that I just quoted a passage of
    > >>>>>> text
    > >>>>>> pretty much verbatim? What is it about that that simply doesn't
    > >>>>>> register
    > >>>>>> with you?
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>> I didn't "exaggerate" a single thing, but relayed the story exactly as
    > >>>>>> it
    > >>>>>> appeared in the paper you silly ****,
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> You did not, you made exaggerated claim about 5-7L oil usage being
    > >>>>> deemed
    > >>>>> normal by Holden before revealing that the article did in fact never
    > >>>>> claim
    > >>>>> that. It was one extreme "customer complaint" example, which Holden
    > >>>>> would
    > >>>>> never deem as normal.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> It was what was claimed in the article, I also don't believe that Holden
    > >>>> would say that it was normal but the person writing the letter stated
    > >>>> that
    > >>>> they said it was.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>> Yep, that's what they said. The claim is BS, you know it, I know it. But
    > >>> not
    > >>> Noddy who is happy to write off an entire engine based on some anecdotal
    > >>> reports of oil usage.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>> and as I told you at the time
    > >>>>>> if you had an issue with it you needed to take it up with the
    > >>>>>> columnist
    > >>>>>> who printed the thing.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>> I even gave you his ****ing email address :)
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Did you?
    > >>>>
    > >>>> I posted a link to the article as well.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    > >>> assertion
    > >>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    > >>>
    > >>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been reports
    > >>> of
    > >>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    > >>> present
    > >>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    > >>> aren't
    > >>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > >> Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)
    > >>>

    > >
    > >
    > > Plenty of oil burning V6 Magnas around these days so I wouldn't be so smug.

    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
    > Not mine.


    Sump is dry? You're too poor to top it up?

    Al
    --
    I don't take sides.
    It's more fun to insult everyone.

  15. #95
    Ext User(Noddy) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 07/10/13 2:20 PM, Clocky wrote:

    > Not at all. Multifranchise dealers have departments.
    > Something else you didn't know.


    They *all* have departments you silly ****. I ran the service department
    of one of Melbourne's most popular Honda dealerships, and it made more
    money than all the other departments combined.

    > It doesn't matter to you.


    The problems certainly don't matter to me one way or the other, but you
    seem to be able to come up with no end of ridiculous bullshit in order
    to excuse them.

    In another post I gave you not only an example of the author of the
    original message making the "5-7 litre" claim in his own words, but also
    half a dozen examples of similar problems and you completely *ignored* them.

    It would seem that in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary
    you would rather be the kind of moronic twat who would stick his fingers
    in his ears and sing "La-La-La" while denying any problems exist and
    blame the owners as "trouble makers" than actually accept that there
    just *might* be a problem there after all and the owners could probably
    do with some help.

    I guess that comes from being a clueless apologist, huh?





    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.

  16. #96
    Ext User(Noddy) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 07/10/13 2:32 PM, Clocky wrote:

    > Better tell Noddy's motoring writer, he's clearly not very well informed on
    > problem vehicles from other manufacturers it seems.


    With each passing day you seem to make less and less sense. To the point
    where I'm actually starting to wonder if you have some genuine illness.

    Seriously, it's not funny any more.

    > The point being that they may well not have had the fix applied yet.
    > There are so many variables with anecdotal stories...


    Clearly you didn't read many (or any) of the complaints, as if you did
    it would have been apparent that most (if not all) were complaining
    *after* they'd been in contact with their servicing dealer and received
    a big "**** off" for their trouble.

    > If you knew what I know some sales staff used to get up to in quiet times
    > you wouldn't believe it.
    > That's why I have very little regard to the stories you read in motoring
    > editorials.


    Maybe you could fill me in a little here as I'm struggling to work out
    what the *blue ***** anything sales staff did in "quiet times" would
    have to do with customers getting bullshitted to when complaining about
    faults with their vehicles.

    > [insert Noddy vitriol here]


    I'm quite convinced that you'd be the absolute worst kind of consumer
    there is, as while you're willing to dismiss the complaints of many as
    "trouble making", people would hear *you* whinging from the ****ing moon
    if you bought an 11 buck toaster and it only lasted 5 years before it
    died and needed to be replaced.




    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.

  17. #97
    Ext User(jonz) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 10/7/2013 4:20 PM, Albm&ctd wrote:
    > In article <l2r773$f5g$2@dont-email.me>, disco-v8@lotsafuel.com says...
    >> On 10/6/2013 7:25 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>> "jonz" <disco-v8@lotsafuel.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:l2qvnt$ehu$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>> On 10/6/2013 4:51 PM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>> "D Walford" <dwalford@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:5250e34b$0$29900$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraw eb.com...
    >>>>>> On 06/10/2013 10:30 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Noddy" <me@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:l2p6an$d5v$1@dont-email.me...
    >>>>>>>> On 05/10/13 9:21 AM, Clocky wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Interesting that you should pick on this problem, one you have over
    >>>>>>>>> exaggerated greatly to suit your end btw.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> How many times do you need to be told that I just quoted a passage of
    >>>>>>>> text
    >>>>>>>> pretty much verbatim? What is it about that that simply doesn't
    >>>>>>>> register
    >>>>>>>> with you?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I didn't "exaggerate" a single thing, but relayed the story exactly as
    >>>>>>>> it
    >>>>>>>> appeared in the paper you silly ****,
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You did not, you made exaggerated claim about 5-7L oil usage being
    >>>>>>> deemed
    >>>>>>> normal by Holden before revealing that the article did in fact never
    >>>>>>> claim
    >>>>>>> that. It was one extreme "customer complaint" example, which Holden
    >>>>>>> would
    >>>>>>> never deem as normal.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It was what was claimed in the article, I also don't believe that Holden
    >>>>>> would say that it was normal but the person writing the letter stated
    >>>>>> that
    >>>>>> they said it was.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yep, that's what they said. The claim is BS, you know it, I know it. But
    >>>>> not
    >>>>> Noddy who is happy to write off an entire engine based on some anecdotal
    >>>>> reports of oil usage.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> and as I told you at the time
    >>>>>>>> if you had an issue with it you needed to take it up with the
    >>>>>>>> columnist
    >>>>>>>> who printed the thing.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I even gave you his ****ing email address :)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Did you?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I posted a link to the article as well.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yes I remember reading it. What was in the article doesn't back up
    >>>>> assertion
    >>>>> put forward that Holden deem 5-7L of oil usage as normal.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *One* anecdotal report claims that, and there have certainly been reports
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> oil consumption with the number of V6 Commodores on the road, but to
    >>>>> present
    >>>>> them as an example of an oil burning engine when most of them clearly
    >>>>> aren't
    >>>>> is quite disengenious IMO.
    >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >>>> Shoulda bought a Magna.....Zero problems 8-)
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Plenty of oil burning V6 Magnas around these days so I wouldn't be so smug.

    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
    >> Not mine.

    >
    > Sump is dry? You're too poor to top it up?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Shows how good it is.....No oil? who cares.... 8-)
    >
    > Al
    >



    --
    “Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea- massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
    boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it”

  18. #98
    Ext User(Noddy) Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 07/10/13 3:28 PM, Clocky wrote:

    > Every customer has a a Holden Customer Assistance card with a number they
    > can ring to contact Holden directly for any problem.
    > I know for a fact they chase it up with the dealer to find out what the
    > story is.


    And what happens after that?

    What happens to the customer when the dealer says "there's nothing to
    worry about"? What happens to the customer when the 18 year old twat on
    the phone at HCA says that the "dealer is working on it", and advises
    that they should "let the dealer go through the procedure" to fix the
    problem?

    What's the likely outcome for people who are subjected to an "oil
    consumption test" Clock?

    > Yep, there is quite a bit of that going on too but not just at Holden
    > dealers.


    Why do you feel the need to keep referring to anyone else? We're not
    talking about anyone else. We're talking about *Holden*.

    > He's there to present anecdotal stories and comment on them ACA/TT style?


    I'm sure you think so :)

    > And the washup? Thought so...


    If you want to be taken seriously, try making sense.

    > No, that's a lie. Only ~5% were affected, but there where a a shitload of
    > them on the road so the alarmist in you has gone nuts.


    That 5% figure was Holden's claim, right? :)

    > Small batch obviously. You do realise in the greater scheme of production it
    > was a small number of Gen III's right?


    Nope. It was virtually every single engine built in the first 18 months.
    The problem was *widespread* in the US, and the fix didn't filter
    through to here for a long time. They started importing "series II"
    engines long before they started bringing over new rings, and the first
    "batch" of rings weren't manufactured wrong. They were a *design* fault
    that affected every single one of them.

    > As I said previously, Holden was one of the better ones.


    You've been brainwashed by ridiculous brand loyalty.

    > They're dealers, they suck, they have to deal with people that suck and deal
    > with manufacturers that suck.
    > Get over it.


    So that excuses their behaviour, does it?

    > It's a fact, and since you have nothing to do with the trade for decades you
    > haven't a clue what went on at various dealers and with the different
    > manufacturers.


    Lol :)

    This from the bloke who initially seemed surprised about Commy V6 oil
    problems, then declared that their oil use was "known", then went 180
    and denied that a problem ever existed.

    Oh yeah. You're a dealership tool all the ****ing way :)

    > Not nearly as many times as others, that's my point. I'm speaking from
    > experience, you're speaking as a backyarder ****ing about with rusty shit
    > with a trade account at Supercheap.


    You don't *have* a point, you ****ing idiot. You're using the bad
    behaviour of some to excuse it in others, and there is nothing smart
    about that.

    > Where you there were you or is that what Hinch told you happened?


    Denying this as well now, are you?

    > Providing a reasonable arguement against your rambling alarmist nonsene
    > isn't "defending the company to death".


    "Reasonable argument"?

    There is absolutely no doubt about it. You are completely ****ing
    delusional :)

    > Some V6's have oil issues.


    Right. So, because it's "some", it's not a known problem then.

    > You're the loon standing on the street corner yelling that the sky is
    > falling, I'm just offering some perspective.


    If by "perspective" you mean you're making ridiculous ****ing excuses
    for every wrong Holden has committed, just like you do for every wrong
    Labor has committed, then all I can say is that you're doing a fantastic
    job.

    > Because normal people don't live in Noddy's black and white world.


    I see. So, because I think engines either have a fault or they don't I'm
    wrong. Fine. Give me an example of where an engine having a fault is
    "acceptable" in your opinion?

    > You don't know how many of those people getting assessed are perfectly happy
    > with the way they are being dealt with. You have absolutely no ****ing idea.


    Well, you're right about that. I have no idea of the numbers and can
    only go on the number of published complaints. The difference between
    you and me though is that unlike you, I'm *not* prepared to
    automatically assume that the complaints are either bogus, or the fault
    of the owner, or the oil used, or anything *other* than a problem with
    the engine.

    The short amazing truth of the matter is that despite all your
    ridiculous posturing *you* don't have any ****ing clue as to the numbers
    either, but that doesn't seem to stop you believing that it's everyone's
    fault *but* Holdens.




    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.

  19. #99
    Ext User() Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On 6 Oct 2013 08:34:11 GMT, "Blue Heeler" <woof@bark.org> wrote:

    >F Murtz wrote:
    >
    >> Noddy wrote:
    >> > On 05/10/13 1:19 PM, OzOne@Crackerbox-Palace.com wrote:
    >> >
    >> > > Mmmmm.....So you didn't have any contact with other mechanics
    >> > > working on the P76 (there were plenty of them)
    >> >
    >> > There wasn't actually. They didn't sell many of them at all.
    >> >
    >> > > Just for your information,
    >> > > this was my brothers P76 Exec V8...
    >> >
    >> > Stop right there. I'm not interested in your imaginary bullshit.
    >> >
    >> >

    >> May be we could research when and where an apprentice backed one off
    >> a roof and figure out who he is.(the owner that is )

    >
    >I wouldn't bother. Ozliar said it, so the chances of it being bullshit
    >are better than 99.99999999999%



    You have a challenge ahead.
    You can yap to me all about it next time I'm back.
    Won't be for a while though...skiing Steamboat for a month over
    Xmas/New Year which is when I usually come back to visit
    friends/family.

    By now...Oh and don't forget to lift your tail when you crap.




    OzOne of the three twins

    I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace.

  20. #100
    Ext User() Guest

    Re: Anyone able to contribute ?

    On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 00:05:26 +1000, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >Noddy wrote:
    >> On 05/10/13 1:19 PM, OzOne@Crackerbox-Palace.com wrote:
    >>
    >>> Mmmmm.....So you didn't have any contact with other mechanics working
    >>> on the P76 (there were plenty of them)

    >>
    >> There wasn't actually. They didn't sell many of them at all.
    >>
    >>> Just for your information,
    >>> this was my brothers P76 Exec V8...

    >>
    >> Stop right there. I'm not interested in your imaginary bullshit.
    >>
    >>

    >May be we could research when and where an apprentice backed one off a
    >roof and figure out who he is.(the owner that is )


    I'll make it easy.
    Purnell motors Arncliffe.
    Google maps will find it easy though they became a Saab dealer.
    The building has had a showroom built onto what was the rooftop
    parking and the driveway that went down at the back to the service
    area is now covered.
    When you look you'll see a roller door on the side street.
    The car landed in the driveway that now seems to be roofed over.

    Good luck, have fun....remember to keep it all on file for my next
    return.
    BTW the car was blue with the usual P76 exec silver highlights.

    Should keep the yappy one and you busy for months.

    Then again Yappy will claim that it's all afabrication..that I spent
    the last 48hrs driving around sydney looking for suitable business
    premises to use for my story...and you..well you're just too ****ing
    stupid to be bothered with.




    OzOne of the three twins

    I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace.

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