Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
mowers? The price diff is considerable.
I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
tks,..Jason
"Jason James" <vellicet@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:36i4bqF5222oeU1@individual.net...
> Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
> mowers? The price diff is considerable.
>
> I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
> petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
> after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
> needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
The tollerances on your average lawn mower engine are about as slack as they
can be while still allowing the engine to operate, and they can usually get
by on just about anything for lubriaction. Outboards, on the other hand,
tend to be put together a lot better, and while they may not necessarily
require uber expensive oils, you do have to be a bit more vigilant with your
mixing if you want to avoid damaging them.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
"Noddy" <dg4163@_nospam_dod.com.au> wrote in message
news:4203e582$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Jason James" <vellicet@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:36i4bqF5222oeU1@individual.net...
> > Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
> > mowers? The price diff is considerable.
> >
> > I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
> > petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
> > after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
> > needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
>
> The tollerances on your average lawn mower engine are about as slack as
they
> can be while still allowing the engine to operate, and they can usually
get
> by on just about anything for lubriaction. Outboards, on the other hand,
> tend to be put together a lot better, and while they may not necessarily
> require uber expensive oils, you do have to be a bit more vigilant with
your
> mixing if you want to avoid damaging them.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Fair enough,...its one of those things that you wonder about. o/boards are
quieter (at least when new),..my old 4hp Johnson (Seahorse twin) was a bit
piston slappy but it had done unknown number of hours.
Jason
Jason James wrote:
> Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
> mowers? The price diff is considerable.
>
> I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
> petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
> after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
> needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo every time I refueled my
two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now) - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
Due to the fuel/oil mix being passed through to the combustion chamber after it lubricates the
crank, it is possible that a dedicated oil might have qualities that would leave less carbon in
the combustion chamber after being burnt. I know carbon was a problem in my motor cycle days as
the regular engine oils didn't have the same abilities as modern oils - in fact, not even close.
I see the difference in oil fuel ratio being dictated by whether the engine is water or air
cooled. Air cooled engines run hotter and therefore have much larger engineering tolerances to
cope with the greater internal component expansion.
Cheers
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 07:33:42 +1100, "Jason James"
<vellicet@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
>mowers? The price diff is considerable.
>
>I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
>petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
>after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
>needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
>
i'd say outboards are designed closer to "the limit" (eg. an RGV250
engine would be even closer) and that calls for higher quality oil.
OTOH if you ask people here about buying no-name 4 stroke oil from
Safeway/Woolies they'll tell you you'd have to be mad. check the
packaging (i have) and you'll see it meets stringent API stds
---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:32:21 GMT, veritas <veritas@coldmail.com> wrote:
> Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo every time I refueled my
> two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now) - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
They ran just fine.
Jason James wrote:
>Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
>mowers? The price diff is considerable.
>
>I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
>petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
>after 20 yrs,...what is the story here?
Number of times the piston skirt nips up is the most likely story...
the low performance stuff seems to tolerate regular siezures (unless
it includes a ring land). OTOH it's rare to find score marks on one
run on a dedicated 2-stroke oil.
>How come a water-cooled outboard
>needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
The first dedicated 2-stroke oil I can recall was Valvoline, which was
an outboard oil. IIRC they released another oil for air cooled
engines quite a time after. When run in aircooled engines, the
original outboard oil was light years ahead of the conventional engine
oils previously used (Castrol XL used to be the standard
recommendation, which you'll still see on the old Victa fuel tanks).
Particularly in regard to carbon deposits and nipped piston skirts.
On high performance 2-strokes de-coking went from routine service to a
non event and the necessity to carry a spare box of spark plugs was
reduced to a single set. I wouldn't have a clue what's different
about the air cooled oils other than the recommended fuel:oil ratio
(which is typically higher for water cooled engines).
FWIW an engineer, who worked for another oil company, once told me
that Valvoline 2-stroke oil was the one the others all tried to match.
AFAIK they now have 3 different oils (I've got their product list
somewhere, but not currently within arm's reach). The third oil is
for injected lubrication systems (non pre-mix). I've had good results
with all of them and don't recall their Super Outboard as being
particularly expensive -- especially on a 50:1 mix.
You might also note that Stihl, for example, recommend different
ratios depending on the brand of oil used. Some of the outboard
manufacturers used to have similar recommendations (maybe they still
do).
IIRC Seagull used to specify 10:1 on Castrol XL, Victa and Villiers
were 16:1. Good quality dedicated oils are usually fine in anything
when mixed at 32:1 (25:1 at most).
--
John H
thanx for all the replies,....I have got the picture.
Jason
Ken Oaf <tipsy@beerlover.com.au> wrote:
> We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
> They ran just fine.
.... but really gave you the shites. :-p
--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
Ken Oaf wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:32:21 GMT, veritas <veritas@coldmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo every time I refueled my
>>two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now) - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
>
>
> We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
> They ran just fine.
>
>
So it'd smell like you were burning Castrol R and or racing fuel :)
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 08:02:33 GMT, veritas <veritas@coldmail.com> wrote:
> >>Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo every time I refueled my
> >>two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now) - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
> >
> >
> > We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
> > They ran just fine.
> >
> >
> So it'd smell like you were burning Castrol R and or racing fuel :)
Yep, and a shitload cheaper, too. ;-)
athol wrote:
> Ken Oaf <tipsy@beerlover.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
>>They ran just fine.
>
>
> ... but really gave you the shites. :-p
caster smells wonderful . I used to use it in my Mach4
>
and when your old victor stops, you put it away and have a beer because
the mowing can always wait
But when your outboard fails 5 nm offshore, know what I mean
Victas don't have to put up with saltwater, or salt air, so corrosion
inhibitors must be added
Kev
Jason James wrote:
>
> "Noddy" <dg4163@_nospam_dod.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4203e582$1@news.comindico.com.au...
> >
> > "Jason James" <vellicet@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> > news:36i4bqF5222oeU1@individual.net...
> > > Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
> > > mowers? The price diff is considerable.
> > >
> > > I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
> > > petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
> > > after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
> > > needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
> >
> > The tollerances on your average lawn mower engine are about as slack as
> they
> > can be while still allowing the engine to operate, and they can usually
> get
> > by on just about anything for lubriaction. Outboards, on the other hand,
> > tend to be put together a lot better, and while they may not necessarily
> > require uber expensive oils, you do have to be a bit more vigilant with
> your
> > mixing if you want to avoid damaging them.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Noddy.
>
> Fair enough,...its one of those things that you wonder about. o/boards are
> quieter (at least when new),..my old 4hp Johnson (Seahorse twin) was a bit
> piston slappy but it had done unknown number of hours.
>
> Jason
sheik yerbouti wrote:
>
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 07:33:42 +1100, "Jason James"
> <vellicet@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >Is there a major difference between 2-stroke oil for outboard motors vs
> >mowers? The price diff is considerable.
> >
> >I can remember one guy who used to mix straight 30 grade engine oil with
> >petrol (25:1) for his old Victa lawnmowers which were still going strong
> >after 20 yrs,...what is the story here? How come a water-cooled outboard
> >needs more expensive oil compared to an air-cooled garden-tool?
> >
>
> i'd say outboards are designed closer to "the limit" (eg. an RGV250
> engine would be even closer) and that calls for higher quality oil.
>
> OTOH if you ask people here about buying no-name 4 stroke oil from
> Safeway/Woolies they'll tell you you'd have to be mad. check the
> packaging (i have) and you'll see it meets stringent API stds
And who do they think makes the No-Name oil?
Caltex for years made Bi-Lo engine oil, it was the same oil as their
standard Multi-Grade engine oil, they just changed packaging and
continued filling from the same blending tank
the Multi-grade was sold for $9.99 at Caltex servos, the Bi-Lo oil was
$4.99
Kev
Ken Oaf wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:32:21 GMT, veritas <veritas@coldmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo every time I refueled my
> > two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now) - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
>
> We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
> They ran just fine.
Isn't it also because it's compatible with methanol? (i.e. why it's used
in model plane engines for example, at least theoretically)
--
John McKenzie
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abuse@federalpolice.gov.au
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:37:05 +1100, John McKenzie <jmac@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
> > > Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo every time I refueled my
> > > two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now) - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
> >
> > We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
> > They ran just fine.
>
> Isn't it also because it's compatible with methanol? (i.e. why it's used
> in model plane engines for example, at least theoretically)
Not sure about that.
John McKenzie wrote:
> Ken Oaf wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:32:21 GMT, veritas <veritas@coldmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Regular engine oil is all I (or anyone else) could get at a servo
>>> every time I refueled my two-stroke 250 cc Jawa (long time ago now)
>>> - Never any component harm done - it was SOP.
>>
>> We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in
>> the 1970's. They ran just fine.
>
> Isn't it also because it's compatible with methanol? (i.e. why it's
> used in model plane engines for example, at least theoretically)
Castor certainly is miscible in methanol - and I think it may also be in
petrol. These dayspeople tend to use synthetic oils in models as castor
tends to leave varnish and carbon deposits in the engine.
That said, often there is still a little castor in the mix to provide
protection against lean runs where at high temerature the synthetic oils
break down while castor keeps on lubricating.
John McKenzie wrote:
>Ken Oaf wrote:
>>
>> We used Castor Oil as 2 stroke oil in our jap trail bikes back in the 1970's.
>> They ran just fine.
>
>Isn't it also because it's compatible with methanol? (i.e. why it's used
>in model plane engines for example, at least theoretically)
Medicinal castor oil is meant for constipation, and best kept right
away from engines.
Castor based engine oils (eg Castrol R) are essential for use with
methanol as mineral oils aren't miscible with alcohols. (IIRC modern
day Castrol R is actually a synthetic.)
Castor based oils also tend to do better at high temperatures, which
is why the Red Barron ran the stuff in his Fokker, back in the days
before they had decent mineral oils.
The long scarves worn by WW1 fighter pilots were for wiping the castor
oil off their goggles (due to the peculiarities of rotary engine
ignition systems).
--
John H
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