News: Telstra Denies CDMA Closure (+ original article that started it)

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm

Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
By AAP
19 October 2005 10:13 AM

Australia's biggest telco, Telstra, says it has made no decision to
change its current services despite speculation it plans to replace the
CDMA mobile network it provides to the bush.
The board of Telstra is expected to consider the proposal tomorrow when
it meets to discuss the company's four-month strategic review.

A newspaper report today said the telco was looking to replace CDMA
with its new 3G technology, a high-speed mobile phone service which can
be used for advanced services such as video calling.

Under the plan, Telstra's three networks -- including GSM -- would be
reduced to one.

The CDMA network was introduced six years ago to replace analog mobile
services in country areas.

A spokesman for Telstra said today no decision had been taken.

"No decision has been taken to change our current services for
consumers," he said.

"There will continue to be speculation about matters like this until
the results of the strategic review have been announced."

(and the original article that started it all:)

http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html

Telstra's rural 3G plan
Michael Sainsbury and Asa Wahlquist
OCTOBER 19, 2005

TELSTRA could face another political storm in the bush as chief
executive Sol Trujillo pushes plans to shut down the CDMA mobile
network used in country areas.

Telstra - which weathered intense criticism from regional Australia
when it was forced by the federal Government to replace the original
analog mobile network with CDMA in 1999 - now wants to replace the CDMA
network with 3G technology.
The radical mobile plan would involve Telstra eventually reducing its
three networks to one, expanding its newest and more efficient 3G
network into regional areas, while closing CDMA and eventually the more
popular GSM network.

Although the company will ensure the 1.3million CDMA users will not
experience any reduction in services, farmers are already concerned
about the closure of the network.

When the CDMA network was rolled out, there were widespread complaints
about a lack of coverage compared with the analog network.

National Farmers Federation chairman Peter Corish said yesterday the
body "would be concerned if there is any rollback (of the CDMA network)
without a replacement".

"In the change over from analog there was a lot of angst and a lot of
costs," he said. "We would be concerned about the cost and the timing,
and the transparency of delivering the new service. It would have to be
clear.

"We would say we are just at the stage when we are starting to see CDMA
working effectively. There are still gaps (in the coverage) but
generally we are not hearing too many complaints. You would have to
question why they would want to change. We just need to be sure rural
people are not disadvantaged," Mr Corish said. 3G phones - which can be
used for standard voice calls but can also offer advanced services such
as always-on internet and video calling - are more expensive than CDMA
handsets. But industry sources expect this to change within two years.

The Telstra board will consider the proposal when it meets tomorrow for
the first detailed look at the results of Mr Trujillo's four-month
strategic review of the business.

The meeting comes less than a week before the company's annual general
meeting and as it braces for the first round of job cuts from Mr
Trujillo's restructure of the company.

The first wave of redundancies is expected in the 20,000-employee
strong technology group under Telstra chief operations officer Greg
Winn.

In a note to staff yesterday, Mr Winn foreshadowed staff cuts, saying:
"The senior team will now focus on the next critical steps in the
reorganisation process, namely identifying the roles, functions and
skills required at every level for the new and integrated business
areas."

The CDMA network has added 380,000 users over the past year but it has
struggled to attract customers; at June 30 it had 1.3 million users
compared with 6.85 million on the other second-generation GSM network.

The latest 3G technology would allow Telstra to use the CDMA spectrum
to send phone signals over longer distances than possible on the
current 3G network, which is largely confined to the capital cities.

The Australian understands that Telstra recently approached several
major handset-makers about providing 3G handsets in the CDMA spectrum
band.

An added bonus is that the next upgrade of 3G offers much faster data
speeds and can be used as an alternative for the fixed-line broadband
services currently provided using cable, ADSL or satellite technology.

This would help appease concerns in the bush about getting the same
high-speed internet services available in the cities.

The federal Government recently approved a $3.1billion package,
financed out of the proceeds from selling its 51.8 per cent stake in
Telstra, to support regional telecommunications services.

Telstra spokesman Warwick Ponder said: "No decision has been taken to
change our current services for consumers.

"Telstra is committed to provide mobile phone services to consumers,
including those in rural and regional Australia. The aim of Telstra's
strategic review is to improve our customers' experience."

Supporters of CDMA say it offers greater coverage - up to four times as
much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile technology
rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data services similar
to fixed line broadband.

The Australian

<jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message > Supporters of CDMA say it offers
greater coverage - up to four times as
> much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile technology

Yes, CDMA rocks

> rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data services similar
> to fixed line broadband.
>

Bullshit

> The Australian
>

<jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>
> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
> By AAP
> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>

You can't believe all you hear from Telstra these days.

- Public statements are increasingly conflicting and inconsistent
- CSOs are poorly briefed and make up their own stories. Call twice about
the same issue and you'll get a completely different take.
- One of the departments that is most likely to lose people following the
strat review is the PR group
- Many people are making statements aimed at supporting their own jobs - in
other words, trying to get public opinion to influence management decisions

Sad, really.

"The Family" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:43563fe2$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>
> <jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>>
>> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
>> By AAP
>> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>>
>
> You can't believe all you hear from Telstra these days.
>
> - Public statements are increasingly conflicting and inconsistent
> - CSOs are poorly briefed and make up their own stories. Call twice about
> the same issue and you'll get a completely different take.
> - One of the departments that is most likely to lose people following the
> strat review is the PR group
> - Many people are making statements aimed at supporting their own jobs -
> in other words, trying to get public opinion to influence management
> decisions
>
> Sad, really.

Indeed, it's quite probable either the author of the article or the Telstra
staff simply didn't understand their mobile standards. Especially since the
term "3G" is used as if it were a particular standard, which it isn't, as in
this country it could mean EVDO or UMTS. Furthermore, since both of those
standards are upgrades to CDMAOne and GSM/GPRS/EDGE respectively, it's
likely that Telstra were referring to upgrading parts of their network
rather than "replacing it".

What about the "reduced to one" network bit? I suspect that is because
Telstra is rolling out both 3G upgrades across both the CDMA and GSM
networks, and the reporter/Telstra spokesperson interpreted that as a single
standard once again.

The CDMA network isn't going anywhere anytime soon folks.

Isn't it pretty specific in referring to Telstra trying to obtain
handsets that use UMTS in the 850MHz spectrum? (which would support the
argument that they were moving these customers onto UMTS)

This would enable UMTS to be used with range and regional coverage
characteristics that are similar to the CDMA network in place already.

UMTS 850 will likely be deployed in North America too.

Jeremy Quirke wrote:
> "The Family" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:43563fe2$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
> >
> > <jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
> >>
> >> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
> >> By AAP
> >> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
> >>
> >
> > You can't believe all you hear from Telstra these days.
> >
> > - Public statements are increasingly conflicting and inconsistent
> > - CSOs are poorly briefed and make up their own stories. Call twice about
> > the same issue and you'll get a completely different take.
> > - One of the departments that is most likely to lose people following the
> > strat review is the PR group
> > - Many people are making statements aimed at supporting their own jobs -
> > in other words, trying to get public opinion to influence management
> > decisions
> >
> > Sad, really.
>
> Indeed, it's quite probable either the author of the article or the Telstra
> staff simply didn't understand their mobile standards. Especially since the
> term "3G" is used as if it were a particular standard, which it isn't, as in
> this country it could mean EVDO or UMTS. Furthermore, since both of those
> standards are upgrades to CDMAOne and GSM/GPRS/EDGE respectively, it's
> likely that Telstra were referring to upgrading parts of their network
> rather than "replacing it".
>
> What about the "reduced to one" network bit? I suspect that is because
> Telstra is rolling out both 3G upgrades across both the CDMA and GSM
> networks, and the reporter/Telstra spokesperson interpreted that as a single
> standard once again.
>
> The CDMA network isn't going anywhere anytime soon folks.

"retroneo" <retro_neo@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1129781775.317147.279210@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Isn't it pretty specific in referring to Telstra trying to obtain
> handsets that use UMTS in the 850MHz spectrum? (which would support the
> argument that they were moving these customers onto UMTS)
>
> This would enable UMTS to be used with range and regional coverage
> characteristics that are similar to the CDMA network in place already.
>
> UMTS 850 will likely be deployed in North America too.
>
> Jeremy Quirke wrote:
>> "The Family" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:43563fe2$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>> >
>> > <jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> > news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>> >>
>> >> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
>> >> By AAP
>> >> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>> >>
>> >
>> > You can't believe all you hear from Telstra these days.
>> >
>> > - Public statements are increasingly conflicting and inconsistent
>> > - CSOs are poorly briefed and make up their own stories. Call twice
>> > about
>> > the same issue and you'll get a completely different take.
>> > - One of the departments that is most likely to lose people following
>> > the
>> > strat review is the PR group
>> > - Many people are making statements aimed at supporting their own
>> > jobs -
>> > in other words, trying to get public opinion to influence management
>> > decisions
>> >
>> > Sad, really.
>>
>> Indeed, it's quite probable either the author of the article or the
>> Telstra
>> staff simply didn't understand their mobile standards. Especially since
>> the
>> term "3G" is used as if it were a particular standard, which it isn't, as
>> in
>> this country it could mean EVDO or UMTS. Furthermore, since both of those
>> standards are upgrades to CDMAOne and GSM/GPRS/EDGE respectively, it's
>> likely that Telstra were referring to upgrading parts of their network
>> rather than "replacing it".
>>
>> What about the "reduced to one" network bit? I suspect that is because
>> Telstra is rolling out both 3G upgrades across both the CDMA and GSM
>> networks, and the reporter/Telstra spokesperson interpreted that as a
>> single
>> standard once again.
>>
>> The CDMA network isn't going anywhere anytime soon folks.
>

Speaking to a Tesltra tech this morning about our poxed CDMA WLL home-phone
system; It has been quite problematic since we were shifted onto it some 2
years ago.

Tech tells me there is a new phone system on the way, and it will adddress
the multitude of problems people are encountering with their CDMA WLL
systems across this area (CW QLD) at least. Thinking about this thread, I
asked if it is in fact an evolution of CDMA or a completely new system
again?? Reply was it will be an evolution of CDMA(he called it 'like a
version 2' of CDMA). He couldnt give dates yet, but said it was still in
approval stage for rollout. He said they were trying to get it out as soon
as possible, but were keen to ensure there werent any bugs in this one.

Given the CDMA WLL system uses the CDMA towers to hook into the network, I
doubt that CDMA mobile is dissappearing anytime soon...

Cheers,

Rod.......Out Back

Rod Out Back wrote:

[text deleted]

> Given the CDMA WLL system uses the CDMA towers to hook into the network, I
> doubt that CDMA mobile is dissappearing anytime soon...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rod.......Out Back
>
>

Does anyone know if 3G (as in the variety which Telstra / Three are
deploying) has a range limitation in the same way that GSM does?

If it does, not only would Telstra have to upgrade the existing base
stations; they'd have to install many more of them to cover the areas of
outback Australia which have only CDMA coverage now.

Typical of Sol Trujillo, shitting on rural and regional Australia, whilst
giving Howard and Coonan the royal one-fingered salute :)

<jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>
> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
> By AAP
> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>
> Australia's biggest telco, Telstra, says it has made no decision to
> change its current services despite speculation it plans to replace the
> CDMA mobile network it provides to the bush.
> The board of Telstra is expected to consider the proposal tomorrow when
> it meets to discuss the company's four-month strategic review.
>
> A newspaper report today said the telco was looking to replace CDMA
> with its new 3G technology, a high-speed mobile phone service which can
> be used for advanced services such as video calling.
>
> Under the plan, Telstra's three networks -- including GSM -- would be
> reduced to one.
>
> The CDMA network was introduced six years ago to replace analog mobile
> services in country areas.
>
> A spokesman for Telstra said today no decision had been taken.
>
> "No decision has been taken to change our current services for
> consumers," he said.
>
> "There will continue to be speculation about matters like this until
> the results of the strategic review have been announced."
>
> (and the original article that started it all:)
>
> http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html
>
> Telstra's rural 3G plan
> Michael Sainsbury and Asa Wahlquist
> OCTOBER 19, 2005
>
> TELSTRA could face another political storm in the bush as chief
> executive Sol Trujillo pushes plans to shut down the CDMA mobile
> network used in country areas.
>
> Telstra - which weathered intense criticism from regional Australia
> when it was forced by the federal Government to replace the original
> analog mobile network with CDMA in 1999 - now wants to replace the CDMA
> network with 3G technology.
> The radical mobile plan would involve Telstra eventually reducing its
> three networks to one, expanding its newest and more efficient 3G
> network into regional areas, while closing CDMA and eventually the more
> popular GSM network.
>
> Although the company will ensure the 1.3million CDMA users will not
> experience any reduction in services, farmers are already concerned
> about the closure of the network.
>
> When the CDMA network was rolled out, there were widespread complaints
> about a lack of coverage compared with the analog network.
>
> National Farmers Federation chairman Peter Corish said yesterday the
> body "would be concerned if there is any rollback (of the CDMA network)
> without a replacement".
>
> "In the change over from analog there was a lot of angst and a lot of
> costs," he said. "We would be concerned about the cost and the timing,
> and the transparency of delivering the new service. It would have to be
> clear.
>
> "We would say we are just at the stage when we are starting to see CDMA
> working effectively. There are still gaps (in the coverage) but
> generally we are not hearing too many complaints. You would have to
> question why they would want to change. We just need to be sure rural
> people are not disadvantaged," Mr Corish said. 3G phones - which can be
> used for standard voice calls but can also offer advanced services such
> as always-on internet and video calling - are more expensive than CDMA
> handsets. But industry sources expect this to change within two years.
>
> The Telstra board will consider the proposal when it meets tomorrow for
> the first detailed look at the results of Mr Trujillo's four-month
> strategic review of the business.
>
> The meeting comes less than a week before the company's annual general
> meeting and as it braces for the first round of job cuts from Mr
> Trujillo's restructure of the company.
>
> The first wave of redundancies is expected in the 20,000-employee
> strong technology group under Telstra chief operations officer Greg
> Winn.
>
> In a note to staff yesterday, Mr Winn foreshadowed staff cuts, saying:
> "The senior team will now focus on the next critical steps in the
> reorganisation process, namely identifying the roles, functions and
> skills required at every level for the new and integrated business
> areas."
>
> The CDMA network has added 380,000 users over the past year but it has
> struggled to attract customers; at June 30 it had 1.3 million users
> compared with 6.85 million on the other second-generation GSM network.
>
> The latest 3G technology would allow Telstra to use the CDMA spectrum
> to send phone signals over longer distances than possible on the
> current 3G network, which is largely confined to the capital cities.
>
> The Australian understands that Telstra recently approached several
> major handset-makers about providing 3G handsets in the CDMA spectrum
> band.
>
> An added bonus is that the next upgrade of 3G offers much faster data
> speeds and can be used as an alternative for the fixed-line broadband
> services currently provided using cable, ADSL or satellite technology.
>
> This would help appease concerns in the bush about getting the same
> high-speed internet services available in the cities.
>
> The federal Government recently approved a $3.1billion package,
> financed out of the proceeds from selling its 51.8 per cent stake in
> Telstra, to support regional telecommunications services.
>
> Telstra spokesman Warwick Ponder said: "No decision has been taken to
> change our current services for consumers.
>
> "Telstra is committed to provide mobile phone services to consumers,
> including those in rural and regional Australia. The aim of Telstra's
> strategic review is to improve our customers' experience."
>
> Supporters of CDMA say it offers greater coverage - up to four times as
> much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile technology
> rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data services similar
> to fixed line broadband.
>
> The Australian
>

thegoons <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote:

> Typical of Sol Trujillo, shitting on rural and regional Australia,

You dont know that yet. And what matters is what the board will buy anyway.

> whilst giving Howard and Coonan the royal one-fingered salute :)

He clearly got a good kicking and has had the sense to shutup since.


> <jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>>
>> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
>> By AAP
>> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>>
>> Australia's biggest telco, Telstra, says it has made no decision to
>> change its current services despite speculation it plans to replace
>> the CDMA mobile network it provides to the bush.
>> The board of Telstra is expected to consider the proposal tomorrow
>> when it meets to discuss the company's four-month strategic review.
>>
>> A newspaper report today said the telco was looking to replace CDMA
>> with its new 3G technology, a high-speed mobile phone service which
>> can be used for advanced services such as video calling.
>>
>> Under the plan, Telstra's three networks -- including GSM -- would be
>> reduced to one.
>>
>> The CDMA network was introduced six years ago to replace analog
>> mobile services in country areas.
>>
>> A spokesman for Telstra said today no decision had been taken.
>>
>> "No decision has been taken to change our current services for
>> consumers," he said.
>>
>> "There will continue to be speculation about matters like this until
>> the results of the strategic review have been announced."
>>
>> (and the original article that started it all:)
>>
>> http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html
>>
>> Telstra's rural 3G plan
>> Michael Sainsbury and Asa Wahlquist
>> OCTOBER 19, 2005
>>
>> TELSTRA could face another political storm in the bush as chief
>> executive Sol Trujillo pushes plans to shut down the CDMA mobile
>> network used in country areas.
>>
>> Telstra - which weathered intense criticism from regional Australia
>> when it was forced by the federal Government to replace the original
>> analog mobile network with CDMA in 1999 - now wants to replace the
>> CDMA network with 3G technology.
>> The radical mobile plan would involve Telstra eventually reducing its
>> three networks to one, expanding its newest and more efficient 3G
>> network into regional areas, while closing CDMA and eventually the
>> more popular GSM network.
>>
>> Although the company will ensure the 1.3million CDMA users will not
>> experience any reduction in services, farmers are already concerned
>> about the closure of the network.
>>
>> When the CDMA network was rolled out, there were widespread
>> complaints about a lack of coverage compared with the analog network.
>>
>> National Farmers Federation chairman Peter Corish said yesterday the
>> body "would be concerned if there is any rollback (of the CDMA
>> network) without a replacement".
>>
>> "In the change over from analog there was a lot of angst and a lot of
>> costs," he said. "We would be concerned about the cost and the
>> timing, and the transparency of delivering the new service. It would
>> have to be clear.
>>
>> "We would say we are just at the stage when we are starting to see
>> CDMA working effectively. There are still gaps (in the coverage) but
>> generally we are not hearing too many complaints. You would have to
>> question why they would want to change. We just need to be sure rural
>> people are not disadvantaged," Mr Corish said. 3G phones - which can
>> be used for standard voice calls but can also offer advanced
>> services such as always-on internet and video calling - are more
>> expensive than CDMA handsets. But industry sources expect this to
>> change within two years. The Telstra board will consider the proposal when it
>> meets tomorrow
>> for the first detailed look at the results of Mr Trujillo's
>> four-month strategic review of the business.
>>
>> The meeting comes less than a week before the company's annual
>> general meeting and as it braces for the first round of job cuts
>> from Mr Trujillo's restructure of the company.
>>
>> The first wave of redundancies is expected in the 20,000-employee
>> strong technology group under Telstra chief operations officer Greg
>> Winn.
>>
>> In a note to staff yesterday, Mr Winn foreshadowed staff cuts,
>> saying: "The senior team will now focus on the next critical steps
>> in the reorganisation process, namely identifying the roles,
>> functions and skills required at every level for the new and
>> integrated business areas."
>>
>> The CDMA network has added 380,000 users over the past year but it
>> has struggled to attract customers; at June 30 it had 1.3 million
>> users compared with 6.85 million on the other second-generation GSM
>> network. The latest 3G technology would allow Telstra to use the CDMA
>> spectrum
>> to send phone signals over longer distances than possible on the
>> current 3G network, which is largely confined to the capital cities.
>>
>> The Australian understands that Telstra recently approached several
>> major handset-makers about providing 3G handsets in the CDMA spectrum
>> band.
>>
>> An added bonus is that the next upgrade of 3G offers much faster data
>> speeds and can be used as an alternative for the fixed-line broadband
>> services currently provided using cable, ADSL or satellite
>> technology. This would help appease concerns in the bush about getting the
>> same
>> high-speed internet services available in the cities.
>>
>> The federal Government recently approved a $3.1billion package,
>> financed out of the proceeds from selling its 51.8 per cent stake in
>> Telstra, to support regional telecommunications services.
>>
>> Telstra spokesman Warwick Ponder said: "No decision has been taken to
>> change our current services for consumers.
>>
>> "Telstra is committed to provide mobile phone services to consumers,
>> including those in rural and regional Australia. The aim of Telstra's
>> strategic review is to improve our customers' experience."
>>
>> Supporters of CDMA say it offers greater coverage - up to four times
>> as much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile technology
>> rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data services
>> similar to fixed line broadband.
>>
>> The Australian

Graeme Willox wrote:

> Does anyone know if 3G (as in the variety which Telstra /
> Three are deploying) has a range limitation in the same way
> that GSM does?

Being a CDMA architecture, the range of UMTS is limited by
propagation and interference. There is no hard upper distance
limit like that imposed by timing advance in 2G GSM.

> If it does, not only would Telstra have to upgrade the
> existing base stations; they'd have to install many more of
> them to cover the areas of outback Australia which have only
> CDMA coverage now.

From what I've read, UMTS will require a lot more base stations
than GSM. This is partly due to the poorer propagation and
penetration characteristics of signals at higher frequencies
(2100 MHz for standard UMTS IIRC), but more due to the
"congestion" that UMTS data services will generate. In rural
areas with little data traffic, I imagine that propagation and
sensitivity will become more important limitations. But note
that even moderate bursts of data might severely impact the
viability of any weaker signals. That's the nature of CDMA.

John

[TA 2000]

Originally Posted by Ext User(John Henderson)

Being a CDMA architecture, the range of UMTS is limited by
propagation and interference. There is no hard upper distance
limit like that imposed by timing advance in 2G GSM.

Remember GSM900 on Enhanced Extended Range tower can support range of 120km.

If they want offer reasonable data access over mobile in rural area's then they should consider upgrading the GSM network to support EDGE which gives speeds of around 100Kbps.

TA 2000 wrote:
> John Henderson Wrote:
>
>>Being a CDMA architecture, the range of UMTS is limited by
>>propagation and interference. There is no hard upper distance
>>limit like that imposed by timing advance in 2G GSM.
>>
>
>
> Remember GSM900 on Enhanced Extended Range tower can support range of
> 120km.

Use of EER is not compatible with packet data services such as GPRS and
EDGE so carriers are reluctant to use that mode.

> If they want offer reasonable data access over mobile in rural area's
> then they should consider upgrading the GSM network to support EDGE
> which gives speeds of around 100Kbps.

Telstra have used IS-95 CDMA technology in rural areas (which is
upgradeable to 1xRTT and EV-DO technology) so there is no point
upgrading the GSM network (which has awful rural coverage) to EDGE when
it's only available in metro and regional towns. High density areas will
eventually have high speed data access through 3G UMTS bands (along with
3G EV-DO coverage).

It may well be a wise thing for Telstra to slowly migrate to a single 3G
UMTS network that uses 2 distinct frequencies:
1. The 2100 MHz UMTS band for high density metro areas
2. Spare capacity of its 10MHz PCS allocation at 880MHz for use in rural
areas (for channels not currently allocated to IS-95 and EV-DO use)

It will then have all the advantages that CDMA technology provides (no
hard distance timing limit, soft handover's etc.) and be fully
upgradeable to 3.5G technologies like HSPDA with better global roaming
services.
We should do out best to leave inferior standards like IS-95/1xRTT/EV-DO
in the same pile as NTSC/ATSC and imperial measurements ;-)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3rqa41Fl6oepU1@individual.net...
> thegoons <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> Typical of Sol Trujillo, shitting on rural and regional Australia,
>
> You dont know that yet. And what matters is what the board will buy
> anyway.
>
>> whilst giving Howard and Coonan the royal one-fingered salute :)
>
> He clearly got a good kicking and has had the sense to shutup since.

Why would a CEO on a $11M package take orders from a Prime Minister and
Blonde Bimbo on a mere pittance salary?

>
>
>> <jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>>>
>>> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
>>> By AAP
>>> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>>>
>>> Australia's biggest telco, Telstra, says it has made no decision to
>>> change its current services despite speculation it plans to replace
>>> the CDMA mobile network it provides to the bush.
>>> The board of Telstra is expected to consider the proposal tomorrow
>>> when it meets to discuss the company's four-month strategic review.
>>>
>>> A newspaper report today said the telco was looking to replace CDMA
>>> with its new 3G technology, a high-speed mobile phone service which
>>> can be used for advanced services such as video calling.
>>>
>>> Under the plan, Telstra's three networks -- including GSM -- would be
>>> reduced to one.
>>>
>>> The CDMA network was introduced six years ago to replace analog
>>> mobile services in country areas.
>>>
>>> A spokesman for Telstra said today no decision had been taken.
>>>
>>> "No decision has been taken to change our current services for
>>> consumers," he said.
>>>
>>> "There will continue to be speculation about matters like this until
>>> the results of the strategic review have been announced."
>>>
>>> (and the original article that started it all:)
>>>
>>> http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html
>>>
>>> Telstra's rural 3G plan
>>> Michael Sainsbury and Asa Wahlquist
>>> OCTOBER 19, 2005
>>>
>>> TELSTRA could face another political storm in the bush as chief
>>> executive Sol Trujillo pushes plans to shut down the CDMA mobile
>>> network used in country areas.
>>>
>>> Telstra - which weathered intense criticism from regional Australia
>>> when it was forced by the federal Government to replace the original
>>> analog mobile network with CDMA in 1999 - now wants to replace the
>>> CDMA network with 3G technology.
>>> The radical mobile plan would involve Telstra eventually reducing its
>>> three networks to one, expanding its newest and more efficient 3G
>>> network into regional areas, while closing CDMA and eventually the
>>> more popular GSM network.
>>>
>>> Although the company will ensure the 1.3million CDMA users will not
>>> experience any reduction in services, farmers are already concerned
>>> about the closure of the network.
>>>
>>> When the CDMA network was rolled out, there were widespread
>>> complaints about a lack of coverage compared with the analog network.
>>>
>>> National Farmers Federation chairman Peter Corish said yesterday the
>>> body "would be concerned if there is any rollback (of the CDMA
>>> network) without a replacement".
>>>
>>> "In the change over from analog there was a lot of angst and a lot of
>>> costs," he said. "We would be concerned about the cost and the
>>> timing, and the transparency of delivering the new service. It would
>>> have to be clear.
>>>
>>> "We would say we are just at the stage when we are starting to see
>>> CDMA working effectively. There are still gaps (in the coverage) but
>>> generally we are not hearing too many complaints. You would have to
>>> question why they would want to change. We just need to be sure rural
>>> people are not disadvantaged," Mr Corish said. 3G phones - which can
>>> be used for standard voice calls but can also offer advanced
>>> services such as always-on internet and video calling - are more
>>> expensive than CDMA handsets. But industry sources expect this to
>>> change within two years. The Telstra board will consider the proposal
>>> when it meets tomorrow
>>> for the first detailed look at the results of Mr Trujillo's
>>> four-month strategic review of the business.
>>>
>>> The meeting comes less than a week before the company's annual
>>> general meeting and as it braces for the first round of job cuts
>>> from Mr Trujillo's restructure of the company.
>>>
>>> The first wave of redundancies is expected in the 20,000-employee
>>> strong technology group under Telstra chief operations officer Greg
>>> Winn.
>>>
>>> In a note to staff yesterday, Mr Winn foreshadowed staff cuts,
>>> saying: "The senior team will now focus on the next critical steps
>>> in the reorganisation process, namely identifying the roles,
>>> functions and skills required at every level for the new and
>>> integrated business areas."
>>>
>>> The CDMA network has added 380,000 users over the past year but it
>>> has struggled to attract customers; at June 30 it had 1.3 million
>>> users compared with 6.85 million on the other second-generation GSM
>>> network. The latest 3G technology would allow Telstra to use the CDMA
>>> spectrum
>>> to send phone signals over longer distances than possible on the
>>> current 3G network, which is largely confined to the capital cities.
>>>
>>> The Australian understands that Telstra recently approached several
>>> major handset-makers about providing 3G handsets in the CDMA spectrum
>>> band.
>>>
>>> An added bonus is that the next upgrade of 3G offers much faster data
>>> speeds and can be used as an alternative for the fixed-line broadband
>>> services currently provided using cable, ADSL or satellite
>>> technology. This would help appease concerns in the bush about getting
>>> the same
>>> high-speed internet services available in the cities.
>>>
>>> The federal Government recently approved a $3.1billion package,
>>> financed out of the proceeds from selling its 51.8 per cent stake in
>>> Telstra, to support regional telecommunications services.
>>>
>>> Telstra spokesman Warwick Ponder said: "No decision has been taken to
>>> change our current services for consumers.
>>>
>>> "Telstra is committed to provide mobile phone services to consumers,
>>> including those in rural and regional Australia. The aim of Telstra's
>>> strategic review is to improve our customers' experience."
>>>
>>> Supporters of CDMA say it offers greater coverage - up to four times
>>> as much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile technology
>>> rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data services
>>> similar to fixed line broadband.
>>>
>>> The Australian
>
>

TA 2000 <TA.2000.1xc7wl@no-mx.phorums.com.au> wrote
> John Henderson wrote

>> Being a CDMA architecture, the range of UMTS is limited by
>> propagation and interference. There is no hard upper distance
>> limit like that imposed by timing advance in 2G GSM.

> Remember GSM900 on Enhanced Extended
> Range tower can support range of 120km.

Pity about the downsides with those.

Which is why they are so rare.

> If they want offer reasonable data access over mobile in rural
> area's then they should consider upgrading the GSM network
> to support EDGE which gives speeds of around 100Kbps.

Wont work with those EER bases.

thegoons <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> thegoons <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote

>>> Typical of Sol Trujillo, shitting on rural and regional Australia,

>> You dont know that yet. And what matters is what the board will buy anyway.

>>> whilst giving Howard and Coonan the royal one-fingered salute :)

>> He clearly got a good kicking and has had the sense to shutup since.

> Why would a CEO on a $11M package take orders from a Prime Minister and Blonde
> Bimbo on a mere pittance salary?

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
that you've never ever had a fucking clue.

It aint Howard or Coonan that administered
the kicking, fuckwit, it was McGauchie.

And even someone as stupid as you should have been able to
work out who gets to give Trujillo the bums rush when it turns
out that he's completely useless, with his fuckwit bum buddys.


>>> <jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>>>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>>>>
>>>> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
>>>> By AAP
>>>> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>>>>
>>>> Australia's biggest telco, Telstra, says it has made no decision to
>>>> change its current services despite speculation it plans to replace
>>>> the CDMA mobile network it provides to the bush.
>>>> The board of Telstra is expected to consider the proposal tomorrow
>>>> when it meets to discuss the company's four-month strategic review.
>>>>
>>>> A newspaper report today said the telco was looking to replace CDMA
>>>> with its new 3G technology, a high-speed mobile phone service which
>>>> can be used for advanced services such as video calling.
>>>>
>>>> Under the plan, Telstra's three networks -- including GSM -- would
>>>> be reduced to one.
>>>>
>>>> The CDMA network was introduced six years ago to replace analog
>>>> mobile services in country areas.
>>>>
>>>> A spokesman for Telstra said today no decision had been taken.
>>>>
>>>> "No decision has been taken to change our current services for
>>>> consumers," he said.
>>>>
>>>> "There will continue to be speculation about matters like this
>>>> until the results of the strategic review have been announced."
>>>>
>>>> (and the original article that started it all:)
>>>>
>>>> http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html
>>>>
>>>> Telstra's rural 3G plan
>>>> Michael Sainsbury and Asa Wahlquist
>>>> OCTOBER 19, 2005
>>>>
>>>> TELSTRA could face another political storm in the bush as chief
>>>> executive Sol Trujillo pushes plans to shut down the CDMA mobile
>>>> network used in country areas.
>>>>
>>>> Telstra - which weathered intense criticism from regional Australia
>>>> when it was forced by the federal Government to replace the
>>>> original analog mobile network with CDMA in 1999 - now wants to
>>>> replace the CDMA network with 3G technology.
>>>> The radical mobile plan would involve Telstra eventually reducing
>>>> its three networks to one, expanding its newest and more efficient
>>>> 3G network into regional areas, while closing CDMA and eventually
>>>> the more popular GSM network.
>>>>
>>>> Although the company will ensure the 1.3million CDMA users will not
>>>> experience any reduction in services, farmers are already concerned
>>>> about the closure of the network.
>>>>
>>>> When the CDMA network was rolled out, there were widespread
>>>> complaints about a lack of coverage compared with the analog
>>>> network. National Farmers Federation chairman Peter Corish said yesterday
>>>> the body "would be concerned if there is any rollback (of the CDMA
>>>> network) without a replacement".
>>>>
>>>> "In the change over from analog there was a lot of angst and a lot
>>>> of costs," he said. "We would be concerned about the cost and the
>>>> timing, and the transparency of delivering the new service. It
>>>> would have to be clear.
>>>>
>>>> "We would say we are just at the stage when we are starting to see
>>>> CDMA working effectively. There are still gaps (in the coverage)
>>>> but generally we are not hearing too many complaints. You would
>>>> have to question why they would want to change. We just need to be
>>>> sure rural people are not disadvantaged," Mr Corish said. 3G
>>>> phones - which can be used for standard voice calls but can also
>>>> offer advanced services such as always-on internet and video calling - are
>>>> more
>>>> expensive than CDMA handsets. But industry sources expect this to
>>>> change within two years. The Telstra board will consider the
>>>> proposal when it meets tomorrow
>>>> for the first detailed look at the results of Mr Trujillo's
>>>> four-month strategic review of the business.
>>>>
>>>> The meeting comes less than a week before the company's annual
>>>> general meeting and as it braces for the first round of job cuts
>>>> from Mr Trujillo's restructure of the company.
>>>>
>>>> The first wave of redundancies is expected in the 20,000-employee
>>>> strong technology group under Telstra chief operations officer Greg
>>>> Winn.
>>>>
>>>> In a note to staff yesterday, Mr Winn foreshadowed staff cuts,
>>>> saying: "The senior team will now focus on the next critical steps
>>>> in the reorganisation process, namely identifying the roles,
>>>> functions and skills required at every level for the new and
>>>> integrated business areas."
>>>>
>>>> The CDMA network has added 380,000 users over the past year but it
>>>> has struggled to attract customers; at June 30 it had 1.3 million
>>>> users compared with 6.85 million on the other second-generation GSM
>>>> network. The latest 3G technology would allow Telstra to use the
>>>> CDMA spectrum
>>>> to send phone signals over longer distances than possible on the
>>>> current 3G network, which is largely confined to the capital
>>>> cities. The Australian understands that Telstra recently approached several
>>>> major handset-makers about providing 3G handsets in the CDMA
>>>> spectrum band.
>>>>
>>>> An added bonus is that the next upgrade of 3G offers much faster
>>>> data speeds and can be used as an alternative for the fixed-line
>>>> broadband services currently provided using cable, ADSL or
>>>> satellite technology. This would help appease concerns in the bush
>>>> about getting the same
>>>> high-speed internet services available in the cities.
>>>>
>>>> The federal Government recently approved a $3.1billion package,
>>>> financed out of the proceeds from selling its 51.8 per cent stake
>>>> in Telstra, to support regional telecommunications services.
>>>>
>>>> Telstra spokesman Warwick Ponder said: "No decision has been taken
>>>> to change our current services for consumers.
>>>>
>>>> "Telstra is committed to provide mobile phone services to
>>>> consumers, including those in rural and regional Australia. The
>>>> aim of Telstra's strategic review is to improve our customers'
>>>> experience." Supporters of CDMA say it offers greater coverage - up to four
>>>> times as much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile
>>>> technology rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data
>>>> services similar to fixed line broadband.
>>>>
>>>> The Australian

kubalister wrote:

> It may well be a wise thing for Telstra to slowly migrate to a
> single 3G UMTS network that uses 2 distinct frequencies:
> 1. The 2100 MHz UMTS band for high density metro areas
> 2. Spare capacity of its 10MHz PCS allocation at 880MHz for
> use in rural areas (for channels not currently allocated to
> IS-95 and EV-DO use)
>
> It will then have all the advantages that CDMA technology
> provides (no hard distance timing limit, soft handover's etc.)
> and be fully upgradeable to 3.5G technologies like HSPDA with
> better global roaming services.
> We should do out best to leave inferior standards like
> IS-95/1xRTT/EV-DO in the same pile as NTSC/ATSC and imperial
> measurements ;-)

Sounds wonderful. But I'm not up to speed on UMTS frequency
allocations.

Is this "dual-band" UMTS an international standard? In
particular, how does it impact on handset availability and
portability between countries? And just between town and the
bush for that matter?

John

UMTS 850 is an international standard from 3GPP, it's just not deployed
anywhere yet and there are no handsets.

Today's UMTS 2100 handsets won't work on it, but they can't use the
CDMA network that's there anyway.

Future dual-band UMTS 850/2100 handsets will work everywhere.

> Sounds wonderful. But I'm not up to speed on UMTS frequency
> allocations.
>
> Is this "dual-band" UMTS an international standard? In
> particular, how does it impact on handset availability and
> portability between countries? And just between town and the
> bush for that matter?
>
> John

John Henderson wrote:
> kubalister wrote:
>
>
>>It may well be a wise thing for Telstra to slowly migrate to a
>>single 3G UMTS network that uses 2 distinct frequencies:
>>1. The 2100 MHz UMTS band for high density metro areas
>>2. Spare capacity of its 10MHz PCS allocation at 880MHz for
>>use in rural areas (for channels not currently allocated to
>>IS-95 and EV-DO use)
>>
>>It will then have all the advantages that CDMA technology
>>provides (no hard distance timing limit, soft handover's etc.)
>>and be fully upgradeable to 3.5G technologies like HSPDA with
>>better global roaming services.
>>We should do out best to leave inferior standards like
>>IS-95/1xRTT/EV-DO in the same pile as NTSC/ATSC and imperial
>>measurements ;-)
>
>
> Sounds wonderful. But I'm not up to speed on UMTS frequency
> allocations.
>
> Is this "dual-band" UMTS an international standard? In
> particular, how does it impact on handset availability and
> portability between countries? And just between town and the
> bush for that matter?
>
> John

This table shows the various international mobile frequency allocations:
http://www.umtsworld.com/technology/...eq_wrc2000.gif

Australia is pretty much identical to the row for Europe in current
allocations however our current IS-95 CDMA & EV-DO CDMA devices operate
in the old analogue phone spectrum that matches up with the 800 MHz
frequencies used in North America (shown in green on the last row).
The top ITU allocation row shows that since the IMT-2000 meeting it was
agreed that UMTS standards can be used in existing GSM and 850MHz PCS
allocations.

So did they decide th close it?

<jjcoolaus@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1129689201.900575.279760@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communi...9217753,00.htm
>
> Telstra denies decision made on CDMA closure
> By AAP
> 19 October 2005 10:13 AM
>
> Australia's biggest telco, Telstra, says it has made no decision to
> change its current services despite speculation it plans to replace the
> CDMA mobile network it provides to the bush.
> The board of Telstra is expected to consider the proposal tomorrow when
> it meets to discuss the company's four-month strategic review.
>
> A newspaper report today said the telco was looking to replace CDMA
> with its new 3G technology, a high-speed mobile phone service which can
> be used for advanced services such as video calling.
>
> Under the plan, Telstra's three networks -- including GSM -- would be
> reduced to one.
>
> The CDMA network was introduced six years ago to replace analog mobile
> services in country areas.
>
> A spokesman for Telstra said today no decision had been taken.
>
> "No decision has been taken to change our current services for
> consumers," he said.
>
> "There will continue to be speculation about matters like this until
> the results of the strategic review have been announced."
>
> (and the original article that started it all:)
>
> http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html
>
> Telstra's rural 3G plan
> Michael Sainsbury and Asa Wahlquist
> OCTOBER 19, 2005
>
> TELSTRA could face another political storm in the bush as chief
> executive Sol Trujillo pushes plans to shut down the CDMA mobile
> network used in country areas.
>
> Telstra - which weathered intense criticism from regional Australia
> when it was forced by the federal Government to replace the original
> analog mobile network with CDMA in 1999 - now wants to replace the CDMA
> network with 3G technology.
> The radical mobile plan would involve Telstra eventually reducing its
> three networks to one, expanding its newest and more efficient 3G
> network into regional areas, while closing CDMA and eventually the more
> popular GSM network.
>
> Although the company will ensure the 1.3million CDMA users will not
> experience any reduction in services, farmers are already concerned
> about the closure of the network.
>
> When the CDMA network was rolled out, there were widespread complaints
> about a lack of coverage compared with the analog network.
>
> National Farmers Federation chairman Peter Corish said yesterday the
> body "would be concerned if there is any rollback (of the CDMA network)
> without a replacement".
>
> "In the change over from analog there was a lot of angst and a lot of
> costs," he said. "We would be concerned about the cost and the timing,
> and the transparency of delivering the new service. It would have to be
> clear.
>
> "We would say we are just at the stage when we are starting to see CDMA
> working effectively. There are still gaps (in the coverage) but
> generally we are not hearing too many complaints. You would have to
> question why they would want to change. We just need to be sure rural
> people are not disadvantaged," Mr Corish said. 3G phones - which can be
> used for standard voice calls but can also offer advanced services such
> as always-on internet and video calling - are more expensive than CDMA
> handsets. But industry sources expect this to change within two years.
>
> The Telstra board will consider the proposal when it meets tomorrow for
> the first detailed look at the results of Mr Trujillo's four-month
> strategic review of the business.
>
> The meeting comes less than a week before the company's annual general
> meeting and as it braces for the first round of job cuts from Mr
> Trujillo's restructure of the company.
>
> The first wave of redundancies is expected in the 20,000-employee
> strong technology group under Telstra chief operations officer Greg
> Winn.
>
> In a note to staff yesterday, Mr Winn foreshadowed staff cuts, saying:
> "The senior team will now focus on the next critical steps in the
> reorganisation process, namely identifying the roles, functions and
> skills required at every level for the new and integrated business
> areas."
>
> The CDMA network has added 380,000 users over the past year but it has
> struggled to attract customers; at June 30 it had 1.3 million users
> compared with 6.85 million on the other second-generation GSM network.
>
> The latest 3G technology would allow Telstra to use the CDMA spectrum
> to send phone signals over longer distances than possible on the
> current 3G network, which is largely confined to the capital cities.
>
> The Australian understands that Telstra recently approached several
> major handset-makers about providing 3G handsets in the CDMA spectrum
> band.
>
> An added bonus is that the next upgrade of 3G offers much faster data
> speeds and can be used as an alternative for the fixed-line broadband
> services currently provided using cable, ADSL or satellite technology.
>
> This would help appease concerns in the bush about getting the same
> high-speed internet services available in the cities.
>
> The federal Government recently approved a $3.1billion package,
> financed out of the proceeds from selling its 51.8 per cent stake in
> Telstra, to support regional telecommunications services.
>
> Telstra spokesman Warwick Ponder said: "No decision has been taken to
> change our current services for consumers.
>
> "Telstra is committed to provide mobile phone services to consumers,
> including those in rural and regional Australia. The aim of Telstra's
> strategic review is to improve our customers' experience."
>
> Supporters of CDMA say it offers greater coverage - up to four times as
> much as GSM - using fewer base station than its mobile technology
> rivals. But 3G technology offers fast, always-on data services similar
> to fixed line broadband.
>
> The Australian
>

"Graeme Willox" <graemewillox@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:43576d2d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Rod Out Back wrote:
>
> [text deleted]
>
>> Given the CDMA WLL system uses the CDMA towers to hook into the network,
>> I doubt that CDMA mobile is dissappearing anytime soon...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rod.......Out Back
>>
>>
>
> Does anyone know if 3G (as in the variety which Telstra / Three are
> deploying) has a range limitation in the same way that GSM does?
>
> If it does, not only would Telstra have to upgrade the existing base
> stations; they'd have to install many more of them to cover the areas of
> outback Australia which have only CDMA coverage now.

Australia uses UMTS - FDD - Frequency division duplexing. Transmission and
reception are on different frequencies (like GSM-GERAN) but can occur
simultaneously, whereas one of the design considerations of GSM was to have
transmit and rececive bursts interleaved to reduce hardware complexity.

The earlier barrier though with GSM-GERAN was another TDMA limitation -
backing up the timing of the transmit burst too far as to overstep the guard
interval with some other transmit burst. The nature of UMTS as a WCDMA
system means multiplexing is not time divison, but code-division (i.e. users
share a common frequency at the same time, but with a unique chipping
sequence). So these sorts of limitations don't exist.

The distance limitations with UMTS will be, as already pointed out, due to
the physical properties of a higher frequency signal (~ 1.9GHz
transmit/2.1GHz receive) and due to noise-distance problems - i.e. a phone
close to the BTS is drowning out one further away - a serious problem with
CDMA systems. Despite UMTS best efforts to combat this with high-frequency
closed loop power control, I think it might still be a problem.