agp card restarts system, PSU trouble?

[steve roffey]

Good day
I have been reading the forums about PSU's and wonder if that could be a factoe in my trouble
I have an ABIT ZM6 with ZX chipset
Powerleap 370 T adapter
Celeron 1.1a
256 pc133
sb 5.1
live
USR hardware pci 56k
Lava pci
Dlink lan
Topower 250watt.

With my matrox 4mb video card all is well.
I got a MSI mx460 vt with a geforce 4 chip and 64 mb memory.
With the mx card the system will restart for no apparent reason. it seems that if you leave it alone it will stay on, but as soon as you open a window or menu, it will reset.
People tell me it can be related to the psu but i am not sure. There are no specs oother than 250 watt. For a try i borrowed a new 300W supply with the following specs 3.3v 14a 5v 25a and combined 3.3 and 5 volts @ 150 W. With this psu the problem is still there.
Is the amperage output what determined a "good" supply from a cheap one?
Could the video card draw too much power for the agp slot to supply?
by the way, i removed all pci cards and unplugged all unused drives and the pproblem was still there.
I dont know how to determine whether it is a motherboard or video card problem.
Thanks for any input

[alex zorrilla]

Hi, Steve.

I'm not really sure what the answer is right now. I can report that my roommate has an Abit BM6 (the ZM6's 440BX twin) with the following specs:

Enlight 7237 case with standard Enlight 250W power supply
Abit BM6 motherboard
Intel Celeron 553a @ 800 MHz (8x100), Vcore set to 1.7 V
320 MB RAM (all 3 slots filled with RAM, mixed brands and speeds)
Geforce2 GTS 32 MB graphics card
Western Digital hard drive (20 GB or 30 GB, I forget which)
48x CD-ROM drive
CD-RW drive (I forget the speed)
Aureal Vortex 2 sound card
NIC, modem, USB 2.0 card, floppy, etc.
Windows 98

He does not have problems with the computer spontaneously rebooting. I suspect his power requirements are probably similar to yours.

Which OS are you using? Does this happen in Safe Mode? Does this happen without the Powerleap adapter (if you have an old CPU laying around)? Are you able to monitor the voltage of the CPU at all? Are you able to change the CPU voltage, either through the Powerleap adapter or the BIOS?

By the way, is that the adapter that lets you use Tualatin CPUs on non-Tualatin boards? I was just wondering in case my roommate wants to stretch out his computer to a Celeron 1.4 GHz someday in the future.

--Alex

[brad]

Chances are you need a better power supply.

150 watt combined 3.3 and 5 is pretty light and a GF4 uses a lot more juice than the Matrox. Look for a power supply with 200 watts combined 3.3 and 5.

[steve roffey]

" a GF4 uses a lot more juice than the Matrox "

This is probably true, but where may i find electrical specs on wattage for a video card? for that matter, how would i determine wattage demand of disk drives cpu etc?


" ? Does this happen without the Powerleap adapter (if you have an old CPU laying around)? Are you able to monitor the voltage of the CPU at all? Are you able to change the CPU voltage, either through the Powerleap adapter or the BIOS? "

I havent got another processor to try at the moment, and the only place i can moniter or change CPU voltage is in the bios. The mainboard CD came with a winbond hardware moniter but i get a windows error when i try to run it.

I did find that the max cpu for this board was a celeron 600 which through research i found draws approx 16 watts under load. The celeron 1.1a showed 28 watts under full load.
After trying this i decided to experiment. I removed the geforce and put in the good known matrox card.
I overclocked to 1320 MHZ at 120 fsb and the system crashed after a few minutes. I would tink it loaded the cpu right?
I ran this video card at 83 fsb on my M571 and it seemed ok, and it fan for months at 75 with no trouble, So i dont believe the video failed here.

The powerleap adapter is not even warm to worry about.
I wonder, does the extra power to the adapter help to feed the chip or is it to regulate voltage? I keep looking at the powerleap site but find no answers.

Thanks for the input.
Steve

[steve roffey]

I was looking at psu's wth 200w combined 3.3 and 5v

Enermax 465w 3.3v 35A 5v 35A combined 3.3 and 5v 200 watts
$110

Macron 400W 3.3v 22A 5v 35A combined 210 watts
$80

Topower 375W 3.3v 26a 5v 37A combined 220 Watts
$75


Now the question. Enermax is more popular, is that why it costs more?
The cheapest one has the most combined watts.
Or do i go in the middle with the 400 Watts??

they are all rated p4 ready and know the last 2 are dual fan.
thanks again
Steve

[steve roffey]

My commodore 64 never let me down like this!!! haha

Anyway, my machine was shutting down today with the matrox card dow when converting an avi to mpeg, which i believe is strenuous on the cpu. I will try a benchmark program and see what happens. I also want to see if I can moniter the voltages in windows but the abit program wont work.

I still would appreciate any input on the PSU choices i have since i believe i should go ahead and upgrade that anyway.
Thanks
Steve

[alex zorrilla]

Hi, Steve.

I know that the Poweleap adapter has a voltage regulator on it, because otherwise it would not be able to run the Tualatin CPUs. Whether it draws all the power directly from the power supply or merely regulates the power coming through the CPU socket, I cannot say for sure.

I took a look at the quick install guide on Powerleap's website and noticed that the PL-370/T has jumpers to adjust the CPU voltage. The Celeron 1.1A has a nominal voltage of 1.475 or 1.5, depending on the stepping. You might try bumping it up to something like 1.55, in case the adapter is running a little on the low side. By the way, what is the BIOS reading for Vcore?

As for the wattages, I'm not sure if those are input power or thermal design power. Either way, the Celerons 533a, 566, and 600 all have a Coppermine core. They all draw less power than the Celerons that came before them. I would think that the original Celeron 533 drew the most power. Its thermal design power is similar to the Celeron 1.1A.

Something else I was wondering is what would happen if you underclocked your CPU to 733 (11x66). If it's a problem related to the CPU voltage or a supply rail, this *might* make a difference. Or, it could be something else. Simple enough to try out, anyway.

--Alex

[brad]

My personal preferences are Antec Truepower, Enermax, and Sparklepower, the later same as Aopen FSP. Get a 400 watter and you'll have some breathing room for the future.

[alex zorrilla]

I strongly suspect that the Enermax power supply you refer to is also a dual fan model. Most Enermaxes are. I don't think you really need all that power right now, but like Brad says, you should have plenty of room for the future... provided no one comes up with a new or different connector, like they did with the Pentium 4.

I know what you mean about the Abit monitoring program that came with the board. As far as I can tell, it only worked with Windows 95. Have you tried Motherboard Monitor? I haven't, but I was just wondering how it works.

http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

--Alex

[steve roffey]

". You might try bumping it up to something like 1.55, in case the adapter is running a little on the low side. By the way, what is the BIOS reading for Vcore?"

If i go into the BIOS an leave VCORA at default it sets it to 1.3v which is incorrect. I go tu USER DEFINT and set it to 1.5 which is the max I ca go. I know there was a jumper on the PL adapter but i will have to look into that one.

I did underclock the cpu and still had shutdowns, i thiink i was at 800 or so.

I tried the link for the motherboard monitor but it went nowhere.

Why would the enermax have the Lowest combined wattage of the three? s that due to feeding more 12v items on board?
If ENermax is the way to go thats fine with me but It would seem i should go with the highest combined 3.3+5 watts, unless it is an issue of a quality componant.
I just downloaded a different Moniter prog. i will let you know how it works.
Steve
Steve

[alex zorrilla]

Sorry about that. Typo in the link I gave you. Here is the correct address for Motherboard Monitor:

http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

I am also editing the original post.

--Alex

[steve roffey]

thaknks i will get that next.
The one i downloaded earlier was Hmonitor http://www.hmonitor.com/
It showed an interesting thing.
My cpu core was running 1.52 no trouble.
I restarted and then it was 1.3
restart again 1.52.
I may have power dropping out on the cpu.

Question: What kind of tool do i need to remove the cpu from the adapter, since it was a squeeze fit?

The one jumper on the outside of the powerleap just says 5-6 default
3-4 not used factory.

I believe that the one under the CPU is 133 or 100 fsb but i want to take the chip off to verify.

Steve

[alex zorrilla]

Hi, Steve.

It sounds to me like your Powerleap adapter is not working properly. From your description of the jumpers, it also sounds like you have a Revision 1 adapter. The quickstart guide that I downloaded from Powerleap is for the PL-370/T Rev. 2.0. It describes a jumper block JP3 with 8 pins on the outside of the adapter. Here are the settings:

JP3:
1.30 V = 1-2 open, 3-4 open, 5-6 open
1.40 V = 1-2 closed, 3-4 open, 5-6 open
1.45 V = 1-2 open, 3-4 closed, 5-6 open
1.50 V = 1-2 closed, 3-4 closed, 5-6 open
1.55 V (default) = 1-2 open, 3-4 open, 5-6 closed
1.60 V = 1-2 closed, 3-4 open, 5-6 closed
1.65 V = 1-2 open, 3-4 closed, 5-6 closed
1.70 V = 1-2 closed, 3-4 closed, 5-6 closed

100 MHz FSB = 7-8 closed
133 MHz FSB = 7-8 open

I would suggest contacting Powerleap about getting a replacement, preferably the Rev. 2.0. Just tell them about the voltage problem and about how your computer is not working properly. There is a 3 year warranty, so you should be covered.

Hey, what's the deal? Powerleap's Canadian website lets me but the PL-370/T by itself, but the US site makes me buy a CPU with it.

I just checked on their site in Taiwan, and it seems there is a new v2.1 that allows SMP. It also seems that the JP3 voltage block was added with v2.0. Here are a couple of links you can look at:

http://www.upgrade123.com/html/PL-370T.php
http://www.upgrade123.com/html/product_comp2.php

But yeah, in your case I would go to http://www.powerleap.ca and try to get a warranty replacement.

--Alex

[alex zorrilla]

Oh yeah, about removing the CPU. I think the general advice is to insert a thin, strong blade (knife or screwdriver) under one of the edges and to slowly pry up, carefully working your way around the CPU to lift as evenly as possible without bending the pins. You might want to check with Powerleap to make sure, though.

--Alex

[steve roffey]

I pulled the acapter and flipped it over. It is version 1.0
That is why i didnt know what you meant about the jumpers.
I will need to see if i can get the info on this one.
It came dircetly from taiwan, and has a very poor instruction sheet.
Steve

[steve roffey]

I got the Motheboard monitor 5 program . It is excellent.
The one reading that is out of line it the +3.3v it usually is at 3.5 folts and has only gone as low as 3.47V
The shutdowns are happening without the Geforce card now so i will rule that video card out as the trouble.
Can the 3.3v too high upset the motherboard? what does it feed?
thanks
Steve

[brad]

Originally posted by steve roffey
The one reading that is out of line it the +3.3v it usually is at 3.5 folts and has only gone as low as 3.47V

The shutdowns are happening without the Geforce card now so i will rule that video card out as the trouble.

Can the 3.3v too high upset the motherboard? what does it feed?
thanks
Steve

Its over the 5% tolerance upper end which is 3.465 but probably not a problem in and of itself unless it is also noisy, and a scope is required to check for that. I'd keep a close eye on it however cuz I still suspect the PSU.

[steve roffey]

That is not the only one out of range. I dont know what VTT is but it often peaks at 1.6v and i believe it should be 1.5

[brad]

I think that is the cpu core voltage but Alex knows more about that than I do. I'm not an Intel man

Brad

[alex zorrilla]

Vtt is the termination voltage for the AGTL+ processor bus used by the P6 family of CPUs. The specified range for the Tualatin Celeron CPU during use is 1.25V +/- 9%, and 1.5V +/- 9% for non-Tualatin Celerons. The ranges are +/- 3% when idle.

Since your motherboard (which was never meant to run Tualatins) measures the voltage at the Socket 370 pins, and you have the Powerleap adapter with its own voltage regulator (or at least modifying the voltage), I would not be surprised if the values you see are not what is actually being used by the CPU.

No, I don't know this stuff by heart. I'm just good at reading Intel datasheets.

--Alex